Someone Explain Sam's Sig Line to Me

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_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

For the complete and utter assenines on here, especially the less than 50-post fools who haven't even put into this board. I've been aroudn a while, and those who know me know the gist of my beliefs. Just because some fundie Christian stuck a pencil up yoru butt doesn't mean I'm one.

Sam Harris, dammit! wrote:Growing up, I could not understand the behavior of those members of my family (and their acquaintances) who called themselves Christian. These were some of the most hostile, proud gossip-mongers I'd ever come across. And I started thinking this way at age 8.

Ain't much changed. There are still fundies out there who swear up and down that THEIR version of the Gospel (and there are many, but that doesn't deter the legalists) is the right one, but usually their strictures have nothing to do with love, forgiveness, compassion, mercy. Instead, they have everything to do with creating division, shaming people, and pointing out faults. I've never come to see Christ in this light, though I can understand why some who have dealt with legalists come away with such a bile-like taste in their mouth. It sickens me at times.

In one of my term papers I made a point that my teacher liked. The one thing that many Christians fail to do in dealing with the world today is something that they once used as a catch-slogan. "What would Jesus do?"

I think that many do not ask this question because they know that they'd have to change their ways, and be a little less lordly over others...and that probably doesn't sit well with them.

I was thinking today how many people need to be validated in this life, and they often look to other people to validate them. Within the community of religious groups, at work (crazy bosses and co-workers), at home, people look to see if they're approved of. I can't say whether or not this is a good thing, I'm still thinking on it. But it bothers me when someone needs to be validated so much that they push everyone else out of the boat.

Why is it that the scriptures on love and compassion are hardly ever quoted these days? And those who do are called weak by the legalists, you're doing it the wrong way, the legalists say, you need to be walking this way (insert dogma here).

All I know is that for a long time I hated myself. In my search for validation (which only brought me pain, which I why I question the need for it at all), I fell into a group that only led me to hate myself more because of their emphasis on perfection which I do not posess. I took a long journey into the wilderness, spent some time alone with God, and came out with a healthy dose of love for myself and a great heap of love for my Creator.

My past is my past. I do my best each day, and when I stumble, I ask for help to get up again if needed. I refuse to try to be perfect, for what can you learn from in perfection?

Every day is a test of faith, especially now. I have no idea what the next few weeks will bring for me. Had I believed in the legalistic God espoused by (blessedly) a few here, I'd be thinking right now that I did something to deserve what I'm going through, instead of believing that perhaps the storm had to blow some debris out of my life to make room for something better.

The God I worship gives me hope. But at the same time He does not give me condemnation. My pastor said that you know you're saved when the old things you used to do that you know you shouldn't make you think twice when they are presented to you again. Or, in case you slip, you feel your conscience speaking to you. I guess in judging others not worthy of God (while preening yourself in your own spiritual mirror), there is no guilt.

Makes me wonder though...how folks can quote all this scripture about how depraved others are, and yet look at their own selves in the mirror and not see a speck of judgement.

Ye are gods...


Once again!!!!!

Sam Harris wrote:One thing I have never understood is man's need to pervert what is good within faith by creating dogmatic divisions. The need to be "God's chosen", or be right, is the root of evil in the name of religion, in my opinion.

Why is it that people focus more on being right in relation to others than they do on being right within? Why is it that we need name-brand religion in the form of true churches and christian country clubs? Are human being so insecure?

I'm hoping that those who feel the need to be spiritually above others will cease to preach and just simply answer the question of why they feel the need to be right, so that others may understand.

I'm also hoping that this thread will get a few replies from various types of beliefs here. To me, they're all valuable.


Homework people, homework. Though I wouldn't expect that from at least one of you, because her initial posts to me were about how I was illogical for speaking about my personal experiences with TBMs...she then called me mentally challenged. Uh-huh.

Sam Harris wrote:The Dichotomy of Religion
Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:22 pm
[ Mood: Distorted ]
[ Currently: Falling Asleep! ]
Like I mentioned in the rant about my mercurial mother (who just walked in and gave me bus change to get to work because she knows I have nothing....aaaaaack!!!! WTF??? you gonna be mad at me because you had to give me money tomorrow? *sigh* YES, I'm grateful), I accompanied my grandmother to church this past Sabbath.

It was quite nostalgic in the beginning, the familiar rituals, seeing people I'd grown up with, elders who treated me like the "polished young woman" that they saw me to be (quite a change from what most see me as, I tell you). It's always nice to see the members of my grandmother's church. And it's interesting to see how black people add to whatever faiths they adopt, because our faith is Jewish, but there's a great deal of African-American culture influencing the way things go around there.

The Jewish New Year begins, and that was the subject this past Sabbath. For the first time ever that I can remember, I heard prayers in Hebrew. We don't speak Hebrew, though some do have the option of going to "Canaan Land" (Bellville, VA where church headquarters is located) to learn. It was quite interesting, and touching. I've always wanted to hear Hebrew in those services, it added a bit of authenticity to it for me.

They made me sing, how lovely. When I was little, I used to sing the same song, hoping they'd get tired of me singing it and make me stop. They didn't. They didn't even make me stop after singing "Jesus Walked This Lonesome Valley", go figure(though I think a few feathers were ruffled).

Well, what I'm getting at is this: there's a 17-year-old young man among a few there named Reggie. The 16th tabernacle is rebuilding, and Reggie has been apprenticing himself over the summer. Apparently Reggie has carried himself so well that the owner of the firm that is in charge of the renovations has asked him to come work whenever he can, and has promised not only to teach him about construction but about engineering as well.

17 years old. In an age when MTV and reality TV, not to mention video games and accumulating as much as possible seems to be the activities for many of our youth. My younger brother is 17, and we can't get him to keep a job.

Reggie is the way he is because of the influence of his faith. Not only that, but the faith of my grandmother, the man who started this faith, and those who came after him have empowered a group of black people all across this country, in South Africa, and the Carribbean who all are strong, motivated, and determined to break the stereotypes that are often seen in the media about us, and perpetuated by those of us who are too lazy to think about the repercussions of their actions.

I've seen a lot of folks damning religion on here, but I looked out over a group of successful black people this past saturday, among them YOUNG PEOPLE who haven't even graduated from high school, who had more respect for themselves and others than I'd seen in ages, and I had to just shake my head at all the rants. I tell you...

And yet...

At the same time...

I can still understand some of the issues.

My grandmother's version of Judaism is definitely unorthodox. I call them the "Mormons of the Jewish Tradition". Their church is definitely set up similar, but without all the extra books and weird sexual practices. Still, they rely too much on a mere mortal. They "rejoice when they think of him", sing songs about him.

And that is when the spark died for me. I can't have a middle man between me and God, I can't have someone determining my path for me. I am proud of my Jewish heritage, but I could never go back, even though my grandmother begs me. The Church of God and Saints of Christ (they use the term Christ much differently than the average Christian, they simply mean "annointed one", not actually Jesus himself) did a lot for me as a child, but I do not agree or align myself with all of their precepts. It's the base of my faith, but that's all.

Many thoughts were in my head after church this saturday...


When I can find it (and I will go through all 1,000+ posts) I will post what I wrote up here last year as a statement of my belief. Since I'm playing around.

*sick*
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_Paul Kemp
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Post by _Paul Kemp »

Your posts are nothing more than semi-coherent rambling that - due to your abrasive and confrontational tone - do not deserve serious consideration, but rather, deserves to be laughed at.

Here we go:

Sam Harris wrote:For the complete and utter assenines on here, especially the less than 50-post fools who haven't even put into this board....


Assenines.Haha. Do you know the meaning of words before you use them? Settle down, dear, and take a breath.

When I can find it (and I will go through all 1,000+ posts) I will post what I wrote up here last year as a statement of my belief. Since I'm playing around.

*sick*


Yes, that is what we all want. MORE posts by you talking about yourself. I'll be sure to read carefully.


Wow, for once an atheist who doesn't think I'm a fundie.


Whether or not someone thinks your a "fundie" has nothing to do with your performance on this discussion board or in life. You seem so focused on labeling others and defending yourself from being labeled.

In the real world, we use real words to describe things. We don't rely on amateurish websites to provide us with un-funny quotes. It's funny how you are here calling everyone a "fundie atheist" yet you can't imagine why someone would call YOU a fundie. Noooo... you are the poster boy for religious moderates. For the record, I think you are a fundie. Fundiementally off your rocker.

Dawkins and Sam Harris are hateful, and have not yet proven that a lack of religion would create world utopia.


You must be kidding. Sam Harris (the troll) calls Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris (the author) -two men who have accomplished more than she ever will - "fundamentalist atheists". Besides the fact that this label means nothing to anyone but Sam Harris (the troll) she does this because they - and I quote, ladies and gentlemen - "have not yet proven that a lack of religion would create world utopia."

I don't know whether to laugh at you or feel sorry for you.

(let's just throw condoms at the kids, otherwise we're abusing them)


This is the sort of trash the religious right has to come up. No one said this. You know no one even implied that not giving condoms to kids was abuse. Again, I don't know whether to laugh at you or feel sorry. After this last quote, I'm leaning towards the latter.

they just want FREEDOM to do as they wish.



Yes, what bastards us "fundie atheists" are. We just want the freedom to do as we wish. Imagine that. Thanks for that. I'm back to laughing at you.

People like that, please go run as many red lights as possible at high speed, and come back to me with your findings. If you do.


Right, because red lights really cramp my style and are unnecessary. If it wasn't for those damn Christians, traffic lights would always be green. Alright, I'm really laughing now. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Wait a minute. I thought I was the only one who cursed red lights and the religious folks that insist we have them. Thank god for god, otherwise we'd have no red lights. Jesus Christ...

Marg, please give me an exact percentage of theists in this world who have harmed people. Have I? Have my family? My friends? My neighbors?


Yes Marg, please do. And don't just make it up either, we'll know if you do. While you're at it, please give me an EXACT percentage of theists who washed their hands after visiting the head yesterday. EXACT.

Again, the exact percentage of theists who kill....oh, but no atheists commit crimes, so even if that percentage were small, you'd still have the upper hand, right?


More laughing, starting to border on pity again. No one said atheists don't commit crimes. Atheism isn't a word we should be using, as it is a word that describes nothing. But the prisons are full of atheists, aren't they. I'll be expecting an exact percentage, EXACT, of how many atheists are in prison.

I was throwing up so hard after reading Letter to a Christian Nation that I couldn't make it back to that section of the library. That book was filled, utterly filled with condescention and generalizations.


Wouldn't you call this statement a generalization. Haha, thanks for bringing me back to laughing at you.

No, thank you. Also, I've read some of his trash on the Washington Post. He's a fool.


A fool that managed to finish college at a real University. And publish the 2005 PEN award for nonfiction. And manages to piece together legible arguments. I'm SURE you didn't read anything that the real Sam Harris wrote. Even the 80 pages or so that comprised his Letter to A Christian Nation.

I believe in a FORCE OF GOOD THAT RUNS THROUGH ALL NATURE AND MANKIND.


A force of GOOD? What the F does that mean? So the good things that happen in nature and mankind is a supernatural force? I've noticed a lot of people that buy into this warped pantheism nonsense are simpletons. They can't seem to connect two and two, or are afraid to Break the Spell. Your statement that you believe in a force of good that runs through all nature and mankind is stupid. There. I said it. If that makes me a fundie well then I'm glad to be one. It's stupid. It makes no sense. You are better off arguing for the Christian God and the right Christians have to psychologically abuse their children.

This is what sickens me, when speaking with MANY atheists, you have to tell ME what I believe!


Maybe you should see a doctor. Might I suggest one to help put you out of your misery(I think he is out of prison now)

And Sam Harris (the troll), is not quick enough to pick up on the irony of her telling atheists what they believe and why they are "fundies." I'm back to feeling sorry for you. See, watch her do it:

1. There is no God.
2. Belief in God is not rational.
3. "I just can't see myself hanging on to something like that!" *pat back*
4. Flying Spaghetti Monster, Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Old White Man in the Sky
5. Inquisition
6. Planes in buildings, those horrid Christians, genital mutilation
7. If all else fails, call the person a fundie and whatever other names you can think of, get your playstation pals to jump in, and YOU'VE WON!


1. I believe
2. I believe
3. Not true. I know why people hang on to that
4. You forgot Zeus.
5. You forgot the crusades, the early catholic church, the holocaust, the dark ages, etc...
6. I just realized you probably should have just stopped at 5, but you wanted to make it to ten... started loosing steam, and just jumped ship after you couldn't even come up with 7. Haha.
7. I beg your pardon, but what does Sony have to do with this and what has my playstation pals done to you? You've crossed the line here /sarcasm.
8. (ha! see, I topped you, I win) Actually, I have never known of an "atheist" who cares whether someone admits to being a "fundie" or not. I certainly don't care what you call yourself, or what you believe. As long as you keep your beliefs where they belong - Imaginationland.

Ironically, Sam Harris (the troll) isn't quick enough to pick up on the horrible irony of this statement, considering she started calling people "fundies" in the first place. But wait, more irony:

What's wrong with being a fundamentalist Christian?


You can't write this kind of humor.

Fundamentalist atheists use the same rant tactics as fundamentalist Christians.


Rant tactics. Hmmm.. What would you call your 500 + worders?

It's enough to make you shoot yourself, I swear. I wish I had never become LDS, because had I not, I'd have never come across the angry atheist.


You are the only one that sounds really angry. I wish I had never become an angry atheist, because had I not, I'd never come across the angry pantheistic-jello god worshipper.

can't accept that I don't care if you're atheist


You obviously care quite a bit. Take a look at your sig line.

I have a feeling that a lot of the loudest people go through their days in relative peace.


If you were a hit movie in theaters, you would be Irony Man.

OK, I'm really done tenderizing this hamburgerkött.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
H.L Mencken
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Is Paul Kemp a new sock puppet (not to be confused with the upper case abbreviation: SP)? I tell ya, the intrigue never stops around here.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Angus McAwesome
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Post by _Angus McAwesome »

Moniker wrote:If you start with the premise that atheism is a belief (which Sam does) then it doesn't fail. She's not outside the norm of thinking atheists have a certain set of beliefs and she started with that premise.


The specific definition you cited said "strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles", not "strict adherence to belief". I don't disagree that atheism is a belief, that's stating the bleeding obvious. What I DO disagree with, and apparently have either failed to communicate clearly enough or you and Sam aren't able to understand, is that there is there being a basic set of ideas or principles, i.e. FUNDAMENTALS, for atheism.

Once again... What are the FUNDAMENTALS of atheism so we can apply those to see what is a FUNDAMENTAL atheist.

Did I explain that clearly enough or should I make flow chart?


Moniker wrote:She's not outside the norm of thinking atheists have a certain set of beliefs and she started with that premise.


Then show me what that certain set of beliefs are.


Moniker wrote:It's a premise I don't think is accurate, yet, she does which is why she used that term most likely. So in light of understanding what her premise was it is fairly simple to see how she was using the term. Yet, I wish she'd used a different term.


Then kindly explain why you're wasting your time and mine defending an invalid point that you don't agree with?


Moniker wrote:Which is why I reentered the thread and tried to give specific examples of things said on this board, and the net in general, to try to make a working definition.


Never mind of course that I've already asked for the exact thing that would define a "fundamentalist atheist" once and for all, right?


Moniker wrote:It may be an idiotic term and yet I think it's fairly simple to see how she was applying it. Especially after I cited specific beliefs that she was likely referring to -- the belief that theists should not be allowed in the political process, those that have a belief in a deity should die, etc...


If it's an idiotic term then why are you defending it?


Moniker wrote:Ah, yet, you played about with that word, did you not? I don't mind it, at all. I'm not the one getting antsy about application of terms -- you are. :)


So essentially you're just one gigantic strawman distraction cleverly disguised an actual person.

Good to know.


Also, Sammy... For the love God and Sonny Jesus, go finish your GED or open up a copy Dick & Jane, something, ANYTHING, to get you started down the path of learning my language sufficiently well enough to communicate at a high school level at minimum. Seriously, using fifty cent words doesn't make you look smart when you incorrectly apply them. It just makes you look like a tool.
I was afraid of the dark when I was young. "Don't be afraid, my son," my mother would always say. "The child-eating night goblins can smell fear." Bitch... - Kreepy Kat
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

Angus McAwesome wrote:
Moniker wrote:If you start with the premise that atheism is a belief (which Sam does) then it doesn't fail. She's not outside the norm of thinking atheists have a certain set of beliefs and she started with that premise.


The specific definition you cited said "strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles", not "strict adherence to belief". I don't disagree that atheism is a belief, that's stating the bleeding obvious. What I DO disagree with, and apparently have either failed to communicate clearly enough or you and Sam aren't able to understand, is that there is there being a basic set of ideas or principles, i.e. FUNDAMENTALS, for atheism.


Hahaaaa! Oh, well, you know what? Since you think atheism is a belief instead of a lack of belief then, well, you're actually on the side of Sam and don't even recognize it.

I sooo wish we had smilies here! :)

I don't think I'm the one with lack of understanding.

Once again... What are the FUNDAMENTALS of atheism so we can apply those to see what is a FUNDAMENTAL atheist.


There are NO fundamentals of atheism -- matter of fact there are NO beliefs to atheism either. So, want to tell me about the belief of atheism before we go further? :D


Did I explain that clearly enough or should I make flow chart?


Yes, please do. First explain the belief of atheism that is obvious. :)


Moniker wrote:She's not outside the norm of thinking atheists have a certain set of beliefs and she started with that premise.


Then show me what that certain set of beliefs are.


First you show me what the one belief that is obvious is. :D

Actually, I REPEATEDLY stated there is NO belief or beliefs to atheism. I was explaining Sam's premise -- that apparently you sort of hold, as well...

Oh! My!


<snip this is ridiculous>
_msnobody
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Post by _msnobody »

msnobody wrote:
I interpret it as atheist not giving God credit for good things that happen, while blaming God for anything or everything bad that happens.



My sarcasometer is in the shop right now, so please tell me that was a joke.


Good thing it's in the shop cuz if it wasn't I'd expect she's gonna splode (<<just slang, not poor grammar). My comment wasn't meant to be sarcastic if that is what you mean. Yes, I was serious and I believe there is some truth to it as well. Just to be clear, I believe God allows good and bad things to happen.
_Mercury
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Post by _Mercury »

Moniker wrote:I wish everyone could make up.

I really don't understand the animosity.


Welcome to the internet sweetheart!
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

Mercury wrote:
Moniker wrote:I wish everyone could make up.

I really don't understand the animosity.


Welcome to the internet sweetheart!


Thanks for the kind welcome.

~~~~~~~~~


Everyone please observe Mercury! This is how we are cordial and polite.

Thanks, Merc! :)
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

<snip>
Last edited by _GoodK on Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

Jersey Girl wrote:Is Paul Kemp a new sock puppet (not to be confused with the upper case abbreviation: SP)? I tell ya, the intrigue never stops around here.


Yes. He's another one of the invisible friends of the rational who "don't see a need for such things".
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
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