do I understand the definition of a woman?

[Markk]

in my opinion It is apples and oranges, and in my opinion trying to force a orange to be a apple because you want it to be. It does not mean apples and oranges can’t be in the same bowl, but they are still different fruits.

You still don't grasp the difference between sex and gender, and even sex, which is defined in scientific ways, is blurred and more so over time. You will probably see a day when a person who was born male and transitioned to female is getting pregnant. Should they be classified as a women or a man? How about a women who transitions to male and is able to get the necessary parts to impregnate a female. Do you think the LDS church will recognize them as male and give them the priesthood? Would you?

You are talking about genetically altered human beings, not the natural order of nature, whether you believe in a creator or in evolution…again apples and oranges.

[Markk]

The transgender is a woman because of feelings and technology…according to most of what I have read here.

NO.

Feelings are emotions. Emotions are things like sadness, happiness, anger, etc.

We're talking about thoughts and perceptions. Psychology. Self concept. Thinking Not feeling.

I have no idea how technology got into the discussion but that's not applicable either.

Technology allows things like hormone treatments and surgeries…most transitions as we know it today is impossible without it…

[Jersey Girl]

NO.

Feelings are emotions. Emotions are things like sadness, happiness, anger, etc.

We're talking about thoughts and perceptions. Psychology. Self concept. Thinking Not feeling.

I have no idea how technology got into the discussion but that's not applicable either.

Technology allows things like hormone treatments and surgeries…most transitions as we know it today is impossible without it…

Oh yeah yeah. I get it now. Thanks.

[Jersey Girl]

You still don't grasp the difference between sex and gender, and even sex, which is defined in scientific ways, is blurred and more so over time. You will probably see a day when a person who was born male and transitioned to female is getting pregnant. Should they be classified as a women or a man? How about a women who transitions to male and is able to get the necessary parts to impregnate a female. Do you think the LDS church will recognize them as male and give them the priesthood? Would you?

You are talking about genetically altered human beings, not the natural order of nature, whether you believe in a creator or in evolution…again apples and oranges.

No.

Hormonally altered and possibly physically altered.

I am sure you think I'm being a royal pain in the ass but I assure you, precise word usage is needed in this case.

Not the natural order of nature...example from a different application----> I have thyroid issues. The medication I take disrupts the natural order of nature that gives me hypothyroidism at my age. I am not genetically altered.

I am hormonally altered.

And...a pain in the ass.

[Jersey Girl]

I'm just going to pop this up again for good measure. If I were on my game I would work in the feelings v. perceptions aspect and tie it all together. Anyway...let me just put this here again. Tweaking it a bit so read it again. Think of it as a mini shrine. Steroids talking.

On Gender v. Sex.

Gender

You need to understand what gender is and that it is a social construct.
Boys and girls are raised differently by their families and society based on those social constructs.
The social constructs are actually stereotypes.
That sets the perception of what constitutes a boy and girl in place.

Example: Boys toys vs. girls toys. Boy colors vs. girl colors.

Sex

You need to understand what your sex is.
It's not the same as your perceived gender.
Sex refers to your physical characteristics, what reproductive organs you have.
And...to complicate matters more...whether or not you have reproductive organs of BOTH sexes.

[Jersey Girl]

Gender

Mark ask yourself to describe what a boy is like and what a girl is like. Make a quick list.

THOSE answers are the results of gender stereotyping from birth by society. That's how society creates your self concept of gender.

Sex

Your reproductive organs define your sex as male or female or...intersex.

male/female and boy/girl are NOT equivalent or interchangeable terms in this topic.

Bonus confusion:

Intersex has NOTHING to do with transgender persons.

[Markk]

You are talking about genetically altered human beings, not the natural order of nature, whether you believe in a creator or in evolution…again apples and oranges.

No.

Hormonally altered and possibly physically altered.

I am sure you think I'm being a royal pain in the ass but I assure you, precise word usage is needed in this case.

Not the natural order of nature...example from a different application----> I have thyroid issues. The medication I take disrupts the natural order of nature that gives me hypothyroidism at my age. I am not genetically altered.

I am hormonally altered.

And...a pain in the ass.

No I don’t think you are a pain in the ass.

But altering a persons sex is a little different than dealing with a thyroid issue, at least in my opinion. I have/had Graves, and I took meds for two years and it was cured, so far so good. So I understand a little bit about thyroids and not sure how adjusting a thyroid medically can compare to changing ones sex and gender, especially with cosmetic surgery.


The word gender has different definitions depending on context…mine above is male vs female. Today the word has different meanings….I googled it is the 1828 websters and what it meant in 2000….” Gender meant sex. Gender was used in writing and conversation in preference to the word sex, because sex also meant sexual intercourse. So to prevent confusion and so as to not evoke the thought of sex, the word gender was used.” So that is my context unless noted otherwise.

[Markk]

You are talking about genetically altered human beings, not the natural order of nature, whether you believe in a creator or in evolution…again apples and oranges.

No.

Hormonally altered and possibly physically altered.

I am sure you think I'm being a royal pain in the ass but I assure you, precise word usage is needed in this case.

Not the natural order of nature...example from a different application----> I have thyroid issues. The medication I take disrupts the natural order of nature that gives me hypothyroidism at my age. I am not genetically altered.

I am hormonally altered.

And...a pain in the ass.

No I don’t think you are a pain in the ass.

But altering a persons sex is a little different than dealing with a thyroid issue, at least in my opinion. I have/had Graves, and I took meds for two years and it was cured, so far so good. So I understand a little bit about thyroids and not sure how adjusting a thyroid medically can compare to changing ones sex and gender, especially with cosmetic surgery.


The word gender has different definitions depending on context…mine above is male vs female. Today the word has different meanings….I googled it is the 1828 websters and what it meant in 2000….” Gender meant sex. Gender was used in writing and conversation in preference to the word sex, because sex also meant sexual intercourse. So to prevent confusion and so as to not evoke the thought of sex, the word gender was used.” So that is my context unless noted otherwise.

[Chap]

The word gender has different definitions depending on context…mine above is male vs female. Today the word has different meanings….I googled it is the 1828 websters and what it meant in 2000….” Gender meant sex. Gender was used in writing and conversation in preference to the word sex, because sex also meant sexual intercourse. So to prevent confusion and so as to not evoke the thought of sex, the word gender was used.” So that is my context unless noted otherwise.

If you use 'gender' as merely a 'polite' synonym for '[biological] sex', then your discussions of the issue in this thread are likely to be foundationally confused.

'Gender' is quite widely used nowadays to refer to social or cultural distinctions between people as 'men' or 'women', rather than biological distinctions as 'male or 'female'. That makes it possible to be precise and unconfused in describing people who are unusual in being (say) biologically female (as determined by genitals at birth and XX chromosomes), but have assumed and are widely accepted as having the social identity (gender) 'men'.

[Markk]

That is why I cleared up the word as used in the context of what I wrote…