I Wonder?

[_Quasimodo]

Have you ever been punched in the face, Beastie? By a male?

- Doc

I hope not! That would be beyond the bounds. Only a jerk would do (or think of) such a thing.

My dad was a boxer in his youth. He taught me to box and I competed a little when I was a teenager. I have been punched in the nose. It hurt.

If someone is punched in the nose while off balance, they end up on their ass. I never thought about pulling a gun (of course, I never had a gun). Only a coward would do that.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I agree.

I don't think TM should've been shot.

However, I don't think GZ should've been charged.

I've been in many fights when I was younger, and many training sessions as a man... I can tell you can kill someone by punching them in the head.

GZ was absolutely justified, under law, to defend himself. To pretend that someone can just pummel his way out of a fight shows a severe lack of understanding how fights are fought.

- Doc

[_Quasimodo]

I agree.

I don't think TM should've been shot.

However, I don't think GZ should've been charged.

I've been in many fights when I was younger, and many training sessions as a man... I can tell you can kill someone by punching them in the head.

GZ was absolutely justified, under law, to defend himself. To pretend that someone can just pummel his way out of a fight shows a severe lack of understanding how fights are fought.

- Doc

I think we all may be going in circles with this. You say Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. We both agree that shooting Trayvon was a step too far.

I think that Zimmerman was being foolish in pursuing Trayvon. He overstepped any authority he may have had by getting out of his car and waylaying Trayvon.

Trayvon reacted by punching Zimmerman in the nose (he didn't know who Zimmerman was or what his intentions were). Zimmerman reacted by shooting and killing an unarmed teenager.

I think these are the relevant points. Trayvon was just trying to get home. Zimmerman was trying to protect his neighborhood. He made a stupid mistake and killed an innocent boy.

[_ldsfaqs]

Since some of our posters need things spelled out very slowly, I'll be more explicit.

I would have had zero problems with GZ defending himself with his fists. This was a fistfight. The problem I have is when GZ decided to defend himself by killing TM.

Has our society reached the point where some people are so filled with hubris and bravado that they really feel justified in shooting someone for a punch in the nose? That type of bravado usually is a cloak for cowardice.

Have you ever been punched in the face, Beastie? By a male?

- Doc

No kidding.... These people are sheltered children, wouldn't know violence the pain, the injustice of it, etc. if their lives depended upon it. They watch movies and think all that beating that occurs and people are just fine is "real".

I mentioned to them about a recent incident in which an off duty cop for no apparent reason just a single punch of a guy and put in him a coma. And there are many examples of one punch killing people.

But, did these people respond to these facts? Nope, they ignored them. They don't care..... It was a "fist fight". Holy FREAK!

[_schreech]

No kidding.... These people are sheltered children, wouldn't know violence the pain, the injustice of it, etc. if their lives depended upon it. They watch movies and think all that beating that occurs and people are just fine is "real".

I mentioned to them about a recent incident in which an off duty cop for no apparent reason just a single punch of a guy and put in him a coma. And there are many examples of one punch killing people.

But, did these people respond to these facts? Nope, they ignored them. They don't care..... It was a "fist fight". Holy FREAK!

Lol....I am guessing you live in utah, don't own any guns, don't really know any black people and you have never actually been in a fight. Its obvious that you never worked in law enforcement as you are a complete idiot when it comes to the actions of untrained vigilantes like GZ so it makes me laugh to hear cowards, like yourself, defend the actions of morons who put themselves in danger.

[_ldsfaqs]

I think we all may be going in circles with this. You say Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. We both agree that shooting Trayvon was a step too far.

No, he agreed it shouldn't have happened, not that it was a "step too far".

I think that Zimmerman was being foolish in pursuing Trayvon. He overstepped any authority he may have had by getting out of his car and waylaying Trayvon.

1. Foolishness is not legally or morally actionable, unless it directly causes death. Zimmerman walking around didn't cause death. Trayvon beating him up did.

2. A citizen has every RIGHT to "walk" where-ever they want. Zimmerman didn't exercise any "authority" at all. Further, dispatchers have no authority, they give recommendations. They also aren't there.

More so, what if Trayvon had been a criminal, and Zimmerman by keeping an eye on the guy stopped him from robbing a place or killing someone? Was Zimmerman "bad" or "stupid" in your eyes then?

Can you not see your bad judgment?

Trayvon reacted by punching Zimmerman in the nose (he didn't know who Zimmerman was or what his intentions were). Zimmerman reacted by shooting and killing an unarmed teenager.

Trayvon came back to confront Zimmerman according to the submitted facts and assaulted Zimmmerman. Further, Trayvon wasn't "unarmed".... That is called a lie. Trayvon was using his fists as deadly weapons, thus Zimmerman killed someone committing a violent act against his own person, not an unarmed teenager.

I think these are the relevant points. Trayvon was just trying to get home. Zimmerman was trying to protect his neighborhood. He made a stupid mistake and killed an innocent boy.

Again, Trayvon wasn't "innocent"..... He committed a violent assault.
Do you see how you people LIE to yourselves and the facts to create your judgments?
Trayvon would have only been "innocent" if he just stood there and Zimmerman had shot him.
Can you not comprehend this???

[_Quasimodo]

Lol....I am guessing you live in utah, don't own any guns, don't really know any black people and you have never actually been in a fight. Its obvious that you never worked in law enforcement as you are a complete idiot when it comes to the actions of untrained vigilantes like GZ so it makes me laugh to hear cowards, like yourself, defend the actions of morons who put themselves in danger.

That's my impression, too. Talking tough is easy on a chat board. Reality is very different.

[Guest]

Lol....I am guessing you live in utah, don't own any guns, don't really know any black people and you have never actually been in a fight. Its obvious that you never worked in law enforcement as you are a complete idiot when it comes to the actions of untrained vigilantes like GZ so it makes me laugh to hear cowards, like yourself, defend the actions of morons who put themselves in danger.

1. I live in Utah now, but I've lived in several states and cities, but mostly Nevada my whole life.

2. I've owned several guns. I've also used many types of guns, and am an Ex Marine, Expert Marksman.

3. I've known many black people, having lived in Georgia and California and in the Marines, including one year my best friend being black. Though you people would call him an Uncle Tom, and all kinds of other racist things. He wasn't a liberal. I've also attended a black congregational church.

4. I've been in many fights, while young stopping bullies and being beat on by bullies and brothers. I'm also an expert Martial Artist who's trained in several disciplines, as well when young played several sports. In the Marines I defended a partially retarded kid from a black man who was a bully and he gathered friends that night and put a beat down on me with about 7 other blacks, and I fought and scared them off after many shots to the head while on the ground before being able to get up and give them some good hits. This event also caused a severe case of sinusitis not long after due to the head traumas. There have been other events, none of which I lost, not to mention training and some competition.

5. I have trained to be an officer, but changed my career, and I've worked in the non-policing fields of law enforcement and related fields.

6. You are a complete ignorant fool, knowing nothing, but thinking you know everything.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think we all may be going in circles with this. You say Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. We both agree that shooting Trayvon was a step too far.

Absolutely.

I think that Zimmerman was being foolish in pursuing Trayvon. He overstepped any authority he may have had by getting out of his car and waylaying Trayvon.

I disagree. I think he had a right to keep an eye on his neighborhood especially after a rash of break-ins. We need more volunteerism, not less.

Trayvon reacted by punching Zimmerman in the nose (he didn't know who Zimmerman was or what his intentions were). Zimmerman reacted by shooting and killing an unarmed teenager.

TM circled back to specifically attack GZ. TM could've just gone home. But because TM was an asshole who thinks he can just attack someone he doesn't like he's dead. This is on TM.

I think these are the relevant points. Trayvon was just trying to get home. Zimmerman was trying to protect his neighborhood. He made a stupid mistake and killed an innocent boy.

This is where the disconnect is happening. TM made it home. He came back to attack GZ. There was no reason, whatsoever, for this teenager to come back and attack a man. It's insanity, and no matter how much his defenders cry foul they can't explain why he came back. TM lost GZ. He lost him.

Think about that. There was no reason for him to come back. None. Whatsoever.

[_ldsfaqs]

Lol....I am guessing you live in utah, don't own any guns, don't really know any black people and you have never actually been in a fight. Its obvious that you never worked in law enforcement as you are a complete idiot when it comes to the actions of untrained vigilantes like GZ so it makes me laugh to hear cowards, like yourself, defend the actions of morons who put themselves in danger.

That's my impression, too. Talking tough is easy on a chat board. Reality is very different.

And your "impressions" are false as usual, as I show above.

Talking "tough"? What the heck are you talking about? You liberals are the ones who have been 'talking tough, claiming it's just a "fist fight", it's no big deal, no one needs to use a gun in a fist fight, and if you do, you're a coward, etc.

That's what YOU people have been saying, not us. We are the ones talking REALITY.
That in reality when you're being violently assaulted, in order to escape serious or deadly harm you sometimes have to use a gun.

What planet are you people on that you "reverse" the situation and now claim YOU are dealing with "reality"?