7 year old migrant dies while in custody

[_Jersey Girl]

So you're cool with child abuse so long as the state tells you it isn't really child abuse. Unlike you, I don't need the state to tell me whether it is cool or justified or technically not a crime, to slap a child. But the fact that you do makes you a crappy person, and the fact that you think I mustn't care about kids unless I go google some Arizona "rules" on what "constitutes" abuse, makes you a damned moron.

And I didn't "advocate for children" dumbass, I posted a link and cut and pasted an article. You can't seem to control yourself when it comes to making stupid assumptions and illicitly attacking me, but in this case I'm glad you did because I just learned what a piece of human crap you truly are. You and Ajax should go on a date.

And yeah, go “F” yourself. You're not trying to "educate" anyone, you're just trying to pick a fight because that's the crazy crap you live for apparently.

To those who aren't emotionally unhinged, this facility was closed because of the abuse:

Arizona Southwest Key shelter was closed because staff abused kids, feds say

You have these facilities that even congressmen aren't allowed to tour and now we see video footage of children being slapped around. But according to some idiots, we can't talk about that unless we find out what these kids did to deserve the abuse, and we can't call it abuse unless we follow the Arizona guidelines!

I'll tell you what I'm not willing to do. I'm not willing to:

Evaluate a blurry video.

Use the textual cues of an article to influence my evaluation of said video.

Here is what you don't know:

You don't know what prompted the removal of children from presumably a group setting.

You don't know why the children are seen being guided from one space to another.

You have no audio to observe what is being said and why.

You don't have a clear video presentation to determine exactly what the physical activity is between caregiver and child.

You don't know what the outcome was.

Show me the point in the poor quality video where you think you see a child being slapped.

And yes, laws matter otherwise what the hell are you on about? You want to use the word child abuse.

Show me how your assessment legally fits what you see happening in the video.

Show me. Meet both requests I've made to you.

[_Jersey Girl]

Graham: To those who aren't emotionally unhinged, this facility was closed because of the abuse:

Arizona Southwest Key shelter was closed because staff abused kids, feds say


Show me how that's the same shelter as the shelter observed in the video.

Nevermind, I'll do it myself. Will also check the dates on each piece of reporting.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'll address this remark first.

But then, Jersey Girl being who she is...

What I want is when you are discussing instances of possible child abuse or neglect to inform yourself do your best to get it right from the start.

You have a habit of posting various reports on possible child abuse or neglect and never following up on them.

That leads me to believe that you are shooting from the heart and not your head. You heart (whether it is based on concern for children, your hatred for Trump or a combination of both) may drive your passion but it is your head that will provide the scrutiny that is needed to make a final determination.

You virtually never follow up on these accounts. If you are of a mind to facilitate a thread regarding child abuse/neglect, in my eyes, you have a responsibility to follow up to a truthful and accurate outcome on behalf of young people who have no personal power and rely on adults to effect change.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

A 2016 Human Rights Watch report analyzed ICE death reviews of 18 adults who passed away while under detention by U.S. immigration authorities at various facilities between 2012 and 2015. Was KG outraged then? Or did those deaths not matter as much because a child's death is more shocking?

- Doc

Ah, moron #2 back at it again I see. To answer your question, the answer is yes. A child's death due to negligence of those restraining them is infinitely more concerning than grown adults dying for.... what reason again? Oh, that's right, you don't say. For all you know they all died of natural causes or suicide.

Here is a list of all those who have died while in custody since 2015. Almost all of them are older men who died from natural causes and a few from suicide. Cardiac arrest, liver failure, cirrhosis, gastrointestinal bleeding etc. No children dying from the flu.

https://www.aila.org/infonet/deaths-at- ... on-centers

“F” face supreme over here with an overt devaluation of a human being's life because they lived a few more years than someone else. Jesus. Absolutely unhinged.

What a piece of crap, Kevin Graham is.

The ACLU received more than 30,000 pages of internal government documents detailing abuse between 2009 and 2014 throughout the southern border region.

In one complaint we obtained, a Border Patrol agent grabbed a girl he claimed was running away, handcuffed her to someone else and dragged them together along the ground, causing “two bruises on her neck, scratches to her shoulders and arms, and thorns in her head.” A 16-year-old recounted that a Border Patrol agent threw him down before he used his boot to smash his head into the ground.

Other children allege that agents assaulted them with their feet, fists, flashlights, and Tasers. In one case, an agent ran over a 17-year-old with a patrol vehicle and then got out and punched the child in the head and body. Often, children noted that other agents witnessed the abuse or saw the injuries but refused them medical attention. In one case, agents accused a pregnant minor of lying about the pain — which turned out to be labor contractions preceding a stillbirth.

The abuse was also sexual. During an arrest in the desert in Phoenix, Arizona, an agent grabbed a child’s buttocks and only stopped when she screamed and another agent approached. In another incident, a 16-year-old girl reported that a Border Patrol agent forcefully spread her legs and touched her genitals so hard she screamed in pain.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

Unlike you I'm following up on both pieces that you posted. They do involve the same shelter. The first piece is right here, published 12/30/18--today. I'll go through it and pose questions or point out issues that I see.


Surveillance videos obtained by the Arizona Republic show migrant children being slapped, pushed and dragged by employees at a since-shuttered shelter run by embattled shelter provider Southwest Key Programs.

I cannot see the footage clearly enough to make a determination. Specifically, I cannot see where the children are being physically guided (yes, there's a term for that) in terms of upper arms or shoulders. I cannot see facial expressions and of course, I cannot hear the interaction because there is no audio.

In one video, a male staffer at the Hacienda Del Sol shelter in Youngtown, Arizona, is seen pulling and dragging a young boy into a room before slapping him and pushing him against a wall. The child then appears to strike back at the employee who retreats from the boy and leaves the room.

I can't see the verify the slap or the push. What I see (and what is likely being described as both the slap and push and they well may be both) is a staffer attempting to physically guide a resistant child into the room and keeping at least arm's length space between his own body and the child's.

A second surveillance clip shows a female employee at the shelter dragging a child into a room. Another staff member is seen in the same video dragging and pulling another child across the floor.

I'd have to look at the video for a fifth time on this. What I see with the first female staffer is a staffer attempting to physically guide a resistant child, the child falls to the floor (very common) and she pulls him through the door. I don't believe I saw the second staffer dragging a child. Again, I'd have to review it again and I probably will although I am reluctant to make any sort of determination an intentionally blurred video for the reasons I stated above.

The Republic said the videos were obtained from the Arizona Department of Health Services under state public-records law. The clips were blurred by the department to protect the children’s identities.

According to the Republic, Southwest Key had reported the incidents shown in the videos — all of which occurred in mid-September — to state authorities, local law enforcement and federal officials.

Took place mid-Sept. Were reported IAW state rules and regs--in compliance with license.

The shelter was shuttered by the federal government in early October. At the time, Southwest Key said the Office of Refugee Resettlement had decided to suspend operations at Hacienda Del Sol because of an unspecified incident.

Shut down services early October.

“We wholeheartedly welcomed the [decision] and are working to thoroughly retrain our staff,” a spokesman for the Texas-based shelter operator said.

It’s unclear whether the encounters shown in the surveillance videos were directly linked to the shelter’s suspension. The Republic reported in October, however, that the facility was shuttered because staffers there had been found to have physically abused children.

No confirmation that what appears in the video is tied to the shut down.

Southwest Key declined to elaborate on the surveillance videos, the Republic said on Friday. The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office told the paper that it had reviewed the surveillance clips and determined that “while physical force and restraint techniques were used against these minor children, these actions did not rise to the level of criminal charges.”

According to the state revised statutes they do not meet the criteria for child abuse--they aren't actionable.

Here they are and I'll reformat them a bit to make them more readable.

R9-5-510. Discipline and Guidance

A. A licensee shall ensure that a staff member:

1. Defines and maintains consistent and reasonable guidelines and limitations for an enrolled child’s behavior;

2. Teaches, models, and encourages orderly conduct, personal control, and age-appropriate behavior;

3. Explains to an enrolled child why a particular behavior is not allowed, suggests an alternative, and assists the enrolled child to become engaged in an alternative activity; and

4. After determining that an enrolled child’s behavior may result in harm to self or others, holds the enrolled child until the enrolled child regains control or composure.

B. A licensee shall ensure that a staff member does not use or permit:

1. A method of discipline that could cause harm to the health, safety, or welfare of an enrolled child;

2. Corporal punishment;

3. Abusive language;

4. Discipline associated with: a. Eating, napping, sleeping, or toileting; b. Medication; or c. Mechanical restraint; or

5. Discipline administered to any enrolled child by another enrolled child.

C. A licensee may allow a staff member to separate an enrolled child from other enrolled children for unacceptable age-appropriate behavior.

1. The separation period shall be for no longer than three minutes after the enrolled child has regained control or composure.

2. A staff member shall not allow an enrolled child to be separated for longer than 10 minutes without the staff member interacting with the enrolled child.

Southwest Key is the country’s largest shelter provider for migrant children, according to The New York Times. The shelter operator has come under scrutiny in recent months for an array of issues, including accusations of child sexual abuse, the possible misuse of federal money and the failure to conduct adequate background checks on some employees.

Outcomes?

A staffer at a Southwest Key shelter in Phoenix, Arizona, was arrested in July for allegedly molesting a 14-year-old girl at the facility. About a month later, an employee at a shelter in Mesa, Arizona, who is HIV-positive, was convicted of sexually abusing several boys.

Not the shelter that was shuttered is it?

Mark Weber, a spokesman for the Department of Health and Human Services, told the Times earlier this month that there had been “numerous red flags and licensure problems” with the Hacienda Del Sol shelter, as well as another Southwest Key shelter in Phoenix, which the federal government also shuttered in October.

Back to the shelter in question. What are the numerous red flags and licensure problems? This statement is not an indication of child abuse.

This doesn't tell me what if any violations there were. Red flags and problems do not constitute violations. There's an inspection and response process involved, where is it? Was the shelter operating under a conditional license procedure at the time? Was the appropriate appeals process followed?

If the author gained access to records, why didn't they get access to the records that reflect the red flags and licensure problems? They have a video but they can't come up with inspection reports and response letters? None of these would have anything to do with child abuse.

According to the above, the shelter suspended operations due to an unspecified incident. Until and unless that is identified, we don't know why it was shut down.

Why didn't the author pursue documentation?

The second link goes to the original shut down article in October of this year. I see no point in rehashing it.

[_Chap]

... If you are of a mind to facilitate a thread regarding child abuse/neglect, in my eyes, you have a responsibility to follow up to a truthful and accurate outcome on behalf of young people who have no personal power and rely on adults to effect change.

It would be ideal if everybody who posted a link to a news item made a careful search to see if any critical evaluations of the information given were available elsewhere. But:

(a) That pretty well never happens here: on an adversarial board like this, the normal practice is, in effect, to say 'if you don't like this post, find and post a countervailing source'. I do not think Kevin Graham can or should be held to a higher standard than anybody else.

(b) This forum is a really quite small nook of cyberspace, in which participation is frequently limited to 'No registered users and six guests'. It's sometimes a fun place to visit, but its sociopolitical significance is several orders of magnitude less than the town council of Dogpatch. I really don't think that participation in a discussion here imposes any duty on anybody to take up effective advocacy 'on behalf of young people who have no personal power and rely on adults to effect change', just because they post something relating to the said young people. We are just a bunch of people chatting in the corner of a bar with (alas) no drinks as part of the deal.

[_subgenius]

[_Chap]

A parent who leaves their child locked in a hot car in a parking lot somewhere in the USA is in many cases a person who had the choice of safely taking their child with them into their destination, or not going to that destination, but for reasons of convenience or irresponsibility chose instead to endanger their child without good reason..

A parent who journeys across hostile and dangerous territory with their children is in many cases doing so because they hope to move their family from a place where they are in danger to a place where they will be in relative safety.

Because the two cases are different, we tend to treat them differently.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Almost like Mormon pioneers....

- Doc

[_subgenius]

A parent who leaves their child locked in a hot car in a parking lot somewhere in the USA is in many cases a person who had the choice of safely taking their child with them into their destination, or not going to that destination, but for reasons of convenience or irresponsibility chose instead to endanger their child without good reason..

A parent who journeys across hostile and dangerous territory with their children is in many cases doing so because they hope to move their family from a place where they are in danger to a place where they will be in relative safety.

Because the two cases are different, we tend to treat them differently.

child endangerment is child endangerment...and your pathetic grasp for excusing it because "fleeing from danger" is the rare exception not the rule.