Personhood and Abortion Rights

[_subgenius]

This is about the level at which subs is able to argue things, so I'm inclined to think this one isn't trolling so much as what he thinks passes for clever observation.

wow, you called in sick when the office handed out the "sense of humor" bonus checks - typical Lib laugh at everyone and use the mirror only for hair-fires.

[_EAllusion]

This is about the level at which subs is able to argue things, so I'm inclined to think this one isn't trolling so much as what he thinks passes for clever observation.

wow, you called in sick when the office handed out the "sense of humor" bonus checks - typical Lib laugh at everyone and use the mirror only for hair-fires.

Yes, I already agreed this is what you think counts as witty and that is an accurate representation of the level you operate at.

You ever figure out why conservatives so consistently lack anything resembling a sense of humor? There's a small field of publishing on it, but it leaves a lot to be desired in terms of compelling explanation.

[_canpakes]

Well, now. None of that is accurate.

As such, the only point it makes is that you’re either a liar for posting it, or a fool for reposting it.

except for the parts about
"you can choose to keep your doctor"
"you can choose to own a AR-15 with high capacity magazines for self-defense"
"you can choose to not fund planned parenthood"

but yeah, maybe that last one is only accurate under the current legislation proposed in Vermont.

So, yeah you definitely carry the banner for all things "accurate".

And after all of that, you likely chose your doctor from a long list of options - and can pay for any doctor in the country with your own cash if you’d like. You can own or carry any of several thousand PD weapons or firearms + magazine choices and combinations. You pay just about nothing in taxes to Planned Parenthood while paying nothing at all for anyone’s abortion.

Thanks for confirming that my statement about your image was correct, by you having to try to present isolated and exceedingly limited instances completely different than the image’s claims.

So, which are you this time - liar, or fool? Maybe a bit of both?

[_Themis]

I also believe that it is a child in the stages of infancy in the womb, and that it has the human rights the same as you and I, and it is not their fault how they were conceived and they have every right to live.

You said they do not have every right to live or has all the human rights we have by saying you think a women has the right to get an abortion if she was raped. I suspect you believe a women has the right to abort a fetus/child/baby if she is at risk of dying, which also shows you do not believe the fetus has the same rights. That is an important distinction. You then have to argue why one reason gives a women a choice and another should not.

I believe the child has rights to. It is that simple, yet that complicated. I cannot justify the women's right to choose by telling myself the baby is not a viable living being...obviously others can, I get that.

It may be very viable and it is living. It's very much apart of the women, especially at earlier levels. It is not a person. Those attributes will not show up until later. I suspect if I asked you to define person-hood you would not be honest with us since a fetus would not meet many of the qualifications.

You said you do not like abortion...why?

I view it as one of the last options for a women. As well I would discourage late term abortion accept when the health of the mother or fetus is an issue, which is really almost the only reasons they are done in the late stages.

[_canpakes]

You said you do not like abortion...why?

I view it as one of the last options for a women. As well I would discourage late term abortion accept when the health of the mother or fetus is an issue, which is really almost the only reasons they are done in the late stages.

(Bolding mine)

The CDC (2013 study) reports that only 1.2 percent of elective abortions occur at or after 21 weeks.

[_Chap]

The CDC (2013 study) reports that only 1.2 percent of elective abortions occur at or after 21 weeks.

Look, tread lightly, for you may step on peoples' dearest moral panics ...

[_Markk]

You said they do not have every right to live or has all the human rights we have by saying you think a women has the right to get an abortion if she was raped. I suspect you believe a women has the right to abort a fetus/child/baby if she is at risk of dying, which also shows you do not believe the fetus has the same rights. That is an important distinction. You then have to argue why one reason gives a women a choice and another should not.

No I don't...this is life, it is not always fair, and tough choices need to be made. Having to make a tough choice, is just that, a tough choice. Having to choose a parents life over a child, or a child's over a parents life, does not make either choice right or wrong, or good of bad...but a unfortunate choice.

It may be very viable and it is living. It's very much apart of the women, especially at earlier levels. It is not a person. Those attributes will not show up until later. I suspect if I asked you to define person-hood you would not be honest with us since a fetus would not meet many of the qualifications.

They are a person in the first stages of life, we have a beginning and a end. They have no choice to be what they are, and they are a person, and if everything goes well, they will continue in their growth as human beings...they are just in a different stage of life.

By daughter had a ultra sound two days ago and at just 7 or 8 weeks.. there is heart beat and we can see the head and arm...and that is my grandchild in their first stages of life. He or she has my line of DNA...and that is real. He or she will share traits of one or all of the grandparents to one degree or the other.

I view it as one of the last options for a women. As well I would discourage late term abortion accept when the health of the mother or fetus is an issue, which is really almost the only reasons they are done in the late stages.

Okay...but why? Why not just do a late term abortion if it is not a person? Why do you view it as a last option?


Edit...this is a pic of a 2nd trimester baby...are you okay with aborting him or her?

https://www.mamayurveda.com/blogarchive ... -trimester

[_Jersey Girl]

They are a person in the first stages of life, we have a beginning and a end. They have no choice to be what they are, and they are a person, and if everything goes well, they will continue in their growth as human beings...they are just in a different stage of life.

I wholeheartedly agree with your above. This whole discussion is one of political/legal semantics and people struggling over definitions. It's BS. That's why I hardly involve myself in it. I'm never impressed when people become combative or try to exercise their idea of intellectual superiority over another person when the issue has to do with children. It's fully sickening.

That said, I think there is a misunderstanding between what you are saying and what Themis has stated. Themis is addressing "personhood" and you are addressing the person. Personhood, in my view, is a legal and political definition. "Person" as you are addressing it is the human figure in the ultrasound you describe below. The person holds deep value to you.

I think we need to be sensitive to the reasons why women choose early termination of pregnancy. Does she lack support? Does the father give a damn at all? Is she unsure about motherhood in general? Fears it? Does she have good reason to want to better herself prior to starting a family? Does she fear losing her parents support or love? Does she fear becoming a burden? So many stories at work here.

I try in my own way, to pull from the other and more positive side by lending support and encouragement, pointing to resources and basically being a resource myself. These are the best things that I have to offer.

By daughter had a ultra sound two days ago and at just 7 or 8 weeks.. there is heart beat and we can see the head and arm...and that is my grandchild in their first stages of life. He or she has my line of DNA...and that is real. He or she will share traits of one or all of the grandparents to one degree or the other.

The child who gets you for a grandpa comes already blessed. :-) <3

[_subgenius]

The CDC (2013 study) reports that only 1.2 percent of elective abortions occur at or after 21 weeks.

Is this above or below the critical mass for your "meh, that's not so bad" measure?

[_subgenius]

Yes, I already agreed this is what you think counts as witty...

Noyou didn't (a.k.a. you lie) - you wrote: "This is about the level at which subs is able to argue things, so I'm inclined to think this one isn't trolling so much as what he thinks passes for clever observation."...this is not a remark on "wit".

You ever figure out why conservatives so consistently lack anything resembling a sense of humor? There's a small field of publishing on it, but it leaves a lot to be desired in terms of compelling explanation.

Nice deflection, but i don't see the relevance inasmuch as you are representative of the typical Democrat/Lib that can only laugh at others.