Kamala blasts Pence for refusing to meet women alone

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

EA's gender tyranny continues as he triples down on his abject dumbassery. His White, Male, Cisgender normative view of the world dirties up everything he touches. His hateful misgendering of Mike Pence and those around him continues to ignore the fact that he, EA, is quite possibly the most judgemental hateful bigot this board has ever seen.

I, for one, demand EA retract his cisgendering on others who may not feel that label applies, and immediately apologize to the board for spreading his gender-biased propaganda.

Disgusting and sad.

- Doc

[_Chap]

I have read this thread with increasing puzzlement.

I am trying to imagine what my life would have been like if I had tried to refuse business meetings one on one with women who happened to be in senior positions in the organisations I have dealt with as the representative of my own side of things. It just doesn't compute.

I do know that I would have been a complete laughing stock, in my own organisation and well beyond it. One on one meetings are often an essential stage in getting difficult situations sorted out, and the idea of excluding half the human race as potential partners in such dialogues would have been a major negative in my effectiveness, both real and perceived. The fact that this thread contains relatively serious discussion about whether the Vice-President's position is a reasonable one or not underlines for me how very different US culture is from many other parts of the world.

Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not ... but it is a bit weird to have to realise that a non-negligible part of the US has population has, in this regard, a little more in common with (say) Saudi Arabia than it does with other advanced western countries.

[_Res Ipsa]

When I started out as an associate at a law firm, one thing that soon became clear was that working hard and doing good work was not enough to be offered a partnership. One needed to establish relationships with the partners. We had no mentoring program in the firm, but developing a mentor relationship with at least one partner was key to succeeding. I know of some associates in that firm who were quietly advised to make a lateral move at another firm precisely because they had failed to form those relationships, and so had no one to advocate for making them a partner.

This was a significant problem for the female associates. The one female partner was not the mentoring type, and didn’t take younger attorneys under her wing. Had the male attorneys followed the Pence rule, they would have faced a near insumountable task in terms of becoming a partner. There were some who appeared to follow it, but I suspect for different reasons. So, although we had some partners who would mentor female associates, it was significantly harder for the women to find mentors.

The way associates gained experience and training in a litigation firm was by second chairing trials — working up the pre-trial aspects of the case and then assisting the partner at trial. We weren’t a national firm, but we did try cases all over the state and in Alaska. Second-chairing a case inevitably required one on one meetings with the senior attorney to formulate trial strategy, prepare for the next day’s court activity, etc. It wasn’t practical or profitable to hire a chaperone.

One on one meetings, dinners, etc. were also a large part of developing and maintaining client relationships. Much of my client’s work came from insurance companies, which, at the management levels, consisted mainly of men. Had the clients emulated Pence, the abilty of the women I the firm to get and keep clients would have been severely restricted.

Now, I understand that it’s possible to draw up a structure for law firms and insurance companies that would completely avoid any one on one contact between members of the opposite sex. It might look good on paper, but in the real world of limited time and resources, I’m pretty skeptical that it would ever happen. In my field, universal application of the Pence rule would have shut lots of women out of my profession.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

*puzzled*

And that applies to someone who rose to the position of Vice President of the United States how?

- Doc

[Guest]

We had no mentoring program in the firm, but developing a mentor relationship with at least one partner was key to succeeding.

...

This was a significant problem for the female associates. The one female partner was not the mentoring type, and didn’t take younger attorneys under her wing.

So, it was up to the men to rescue the women's careers because other women wouldn't do it?

eta: Out of curiosity, did any of them attempt to sleep with you or their superiors like Kamala slept with Mayor Brown? You know. Since that's what she did. She slept with her boss. Which, probably, is a violation of some code of ethics or something. I dunno. But that fuckin' Pence, right?

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

I have read this thread with increasing puzzlement.

I am trying to imagine what my life would have been like if I had tried to refuse business meetings one on one with women who happened to be in senior positions in the organisations I have dealt with as the representative of my own side of things. It just doesn't compute.

I do know that I would have been a complete laughing stock, in my own organisation and well beyond it. One on one meetings are often an essential stage in getting difficult situations sorted out, and the idea of excluding half the human race as potential partners in such dialogues would have been a major negative in my effectiveness, both real and perceived. The fact that this thread contains relatively serious discussion about whether the Vice-President's position is a reasonable one or not underlines for me how very different US culture is from many other parts of the world.

Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not ... but it is a bit weird to have to realise that a non-negligible part of the US has population has, in this regard, a little more in common with (say) Saudi Arabia than it does with other advanced western countries.

This thread may distort your perception of the US. We are talking about a minority that likely seems alien to a great many of the rest of the population. What makes the Mike Pence story so notable is the novelty factor of the Vice President of the United States having such backward views. If anything, I'd venture that a lot of people would underestimate just how many people agree with Pence because the American religious right has some cultural distance from the rest of the country. This idea is encapsulated in the New Yorker article I linked.

You're not gonna find a ton of people arguing the things being argued in this thread compared to the population as a whole. Though, given that it is a board with the word "Mormon" in the title, I suppose you're a little more likely to find such people here.

[_canpakes]

And that applies to someone who rose to the position of Vice President of the United States how?

See? If he had groped more women, he could have been elected President.

What a missed opportunity.

[_EAllusion]

And that applies to someone who rose to the position of Vice President of the United States how?

See? If he had groped more women, he could have been elected President.

What a missed opportunity.

If you are looking at Res Ipsa's post and taking from it a lesson about how likely men are or aren't to be hurt by refusing to meet alone with female superiors, you need to take a hard look in the mirror - assuming your image shows up.

[_canpakes]

And that applies to someone who rose to the position of Vice President of the United States how?

See? If he had groped more women, he could have been elected President.

What a missed opportunity.

If you are looking at Res Ipsa's post and taking from it a lesson about how likely men are or aren't to be hurt by refusing to meet alone with female superiors, you need to take a hard look in the mirror - assuming your image shows up.

I choose neither to confirm or deny if I show up in mirrors, but I can definitely tell you that I’m having fun with the idea that Pence’s propriety has somehow contributed to his success, given the voting proclivities of some folks. : )

[_EAllusion]

Pence’s evangelical bonafides, which he very well may have been trying to establish with that comment in the first place, probably has helped him. I was just commenting on how silly it is to focus on whether Pence prospered with his views on gender segregation. That was far afield of the point of Res Ipsa’s post. My comment was directed at the person who did not notice that. It is fun to poke fun at how not like Pence Trump can be and win admiration from the same crowd. But hey, both see women as irresistible :p.