Whoopi makes a mess

[Res Ipsa]

It is also unfortunately the case that anti-Semitism thrives within certain sectors of the African American community. See Nation of Islam. See Michael Jackson using an anti-Semitic slur in one of his hit songs. Countless other examples could be brought to bear. It is this history of anti-Semitic conspiracy thinking and rhetoric among certain Black communities that made Goldberg’s statement so toxic. Whatever brand of ignorance prompted her to reason this way, and popular versions of critical race theory are certainly on that list, it is the history of anti-Semiticism in Black America that made this issue really explode.

I recently read both Malcolm X's autobiography and an excellent biography about him. The National of Islam, as originally founded in the 1930s, was a kind of bizarre cult that didn't have much to do with Islam. It was racist through and through. The black race was God's chosen people. White people were an evil and inferior creation that would be destroyed at sometime in the future by something that sounded lots like a UFO. It trained it's own security force, like an army. I don't recall anti-semitism except as being part of anti-white racism. They advocated for a homeland in Africa, not the middle east.

They were black separatists who didn't want to be segregated within white society. They wanted their own black society. To this end, they communicated and negotiated with leaders of the KKK over giving black folks a portion of the U.S. as their homeland. If I recall correctly, that led to the establishment of a black utopian (?) community in Georgia.

When Malcom X went to Saudia Arabia to do his pilgrimage, he learned that the Nation of Islam was not Islam at all. He also interacted with Muslims of all skin colors, and observed that he was treated equally by folks with white and dark skin. He describes that as a kind of epiphany: the problem was not that white folks were evil. The problems he observed with treatment of black folks by white folks was an American problem. When he returned to the U.S., you can see the origins of his split from the Nation of Islam. Where before, he had ignored and rejected any assistance from white folks in addressing the problems of black folks, he began to reach out to and work with white folks. It's a pity he was assassinated, as it would have been interesting to see him try to implement his modified view of race relations.

When the Nation of Islam's Prophet, Elijah Muhammad died in 1975, his son succeeded him. He changed the organizations name and it became actually Islamic. That would have been the end, except that some followers led by Farrakhan recreated the Nation of Islam in 1977, with its more specific and virulent anti-semitism. There are also a number of cults claiming that black people are the true Jews; they are vocally anti-semitic.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

She starts:

I don’t want to make it seem like i hated my time at oberlin. it was a mixed bag and i got a great education and was blessed to learn from amazing professors. But i think being out of that environment has given me a chance to breathe and process everything that i learned/ encountered/ unlearned at oberlin. i learned about the historical context of anti black racism and its current manifestations and through that learning process was able to better frame and identify my own community’s struggle. However i quickly learned that process was to be kept personal and did not blend into the campus atmosphere or the collective fight for justice at oberlin. Because at oberlin, and indeed in the US overall, Jews are viewed as white and privileged (sometimes even above the avg white privilege, since yaknow, were all superrich and stuff) therefore our struggle does not intersect with other forms of racism and bigotry and ignorance that are so tenaciously fought against on campus. As a part of my processing and letting go of the pain I experienced, I will list a few memorable antisemitic moments/incidents here-

What is the first anti-semitic moment she lists?

1. The multiple times the Holocaust was referred to as “white on white crime” by my POC peers and hip white Jewish peers, (erasing the fact that ashkenazi jews were NOT seen as white and were being killed in the name of eugenics and white purity and also erasing the fact that blacks, Roma, and north african Jews were also killed in the camps.)

Sound familiar?

And number 2?

2. That time a Jewish person made a comment on Facebook saying “the only reason people care about the Holocaust is because it happened to white people” and got tons of likes from white and POC friends alike (Erasing the fact that the western world only decided to care a few decades after the fact, when it wasn't as fresh, and theyd had the time to really work out the details of how they were going to frame it and make it look like the US were the heroes liberating the camps after the US government knew what was being planned by Hitler, knew waht happening while it was happening, and did nothing. Not to mention sending Jewish immigrants trying to escape before the war broke out back to Europe to die in the gas chambers.) This is just one example of Jewish obies stepping all over their ancestors memory in order to climb the white-ally-social-ladder-of-justice-and-excellence i cannot understand it as anything other than self hatred masked by love of “the other”..

And her last.

18. Having my own ethnic identity policed. Being told I was simply European and Judaism is a religion not an ethnicity/ or that I am a descendent of Khazarian converts to Judaism and therefore have no right to claim any sort of indigenousness in the Levant. (There is DNA evidence that the VAST MAJORITY of Jews have Middle Eastern genetic markers (yep even us whities) they can even tell what time period we originated there and started mixing with other populations and it lines up with our own historical narrative yet somehow anti-Jewish polemics still get the mic)
Wow, 18. Chai. Life. WOOSH. That felt great to put it all out there. Also please know that I am not tryin to generalize any specific community at oberlin for antisemitism. It is a complex form of institutional “othering” that is upheld by everyone who is not Jewish.. it manifests on racial grounds, cultural grounds, religious grounds, etc. And it kills, it doesn't just hurt.

None of what she describes is critical race theory. But it comes from social justice theories grounded in critical race theory. None of that extra baggage is necessary to address structural racism. And I don't think that addressing structural racism requires making anyone experience what this student at an elite U.S. College experienced.

I can never figure out if Jews consider themselves white or not. There seems to be some shifting back and forth over the matter. I’m sure it something to do with whites, at least whites who are concerned with the topic, can’t seem to figure out who’s white or not.

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

I doubt it.

Karen Johnson would be done if she were a conservative. Compare what she said and how emphatically she said it with a tweet by Gina Carrano, who disney immediately fired/cancelled. The double standard proves that cancel culture is just a weapon used by the left when it suits their purposes. The only reason they suspended Karen was to protect her from having to answer questions about her view that people with a Jewish skin tone cannot be victims of racism, nor can Muslims with a darker skin tone than be guilty of antisemitism against Jews.

It's kind of interesting that the mainstream media is using the fact that Karen Johnson chose a Jewish surname proves that she is not racist against Jews. I wish the same standard had applied to My Washington Redskins.

LOL! Ajax, you overestimate the left's ability to do anything in a planned, coordinated fashion. You folks on the right are much better about organization around an idea and sticking to the script.

But I think you and I would agree on something here. If a white conservative actor had said what Whoopi said, people's reaction of would have been to assume he was a neo-nazi or white supremacist trying to discount the horror of the holocaust. That's because we have a mental image that associates anti-semitism with mostly white, mostly male neo nazi and white supremacist groups. There's a good reason for that, because these groups are publicly and proudly anti-semitic.

But I think that association leads us to miss anti-semitism on the left, which is not expressed as blatantly as neo nazi groups do. My own opinion is that those of us on the left need to be aware of this and police our own, so to speak. Avoiding anti-semitism on the left requires some careful thought about how we talk about and propose to address the Israel-Palestine conflict, as perhaps the clearest example.

[ajax18]

I’m sure it something to do with whites, at least whites who are concerned with the topic, can’t seem to figure out who’s white or not.

Yeah, Whoopi is just repeating what she heard at Stormfront.

[Res Ipsa]

She starts:



What is the first anti-semitic moment she lists?

Sound familiar?

And number 2?



And her last.



None of what she describes is critical race theory. But it comes from social justice theories grounded in critical race theory. None of that extra baggage is necessary to address structural racism. And I don't think that addressing structural racism requires making anyone experience what this student at an elite U.S. College experienced.

I can never figure out if Jews consider themselves white or not. There seems to be some shifting back and forth over the matter. I’m sure it something to do with whites, at least whites who are concerned with the topic, can’t seem to figure out who’s white or not.

- Doc

I think most consider themselves Jews, and would rather not have to worry about whether they are white or not. American Jews come from a region where folks had lighter skin. Elsewhere, skin color varies among Jews. The concept of white as a race is maybe the weirdest of the racial constructs. As waves of immigrants arrived from different countries, people not from certain countries in northwest Europe were the only "whites." Light skinned people from other countries were considered "not white," but gradually assimilated into the category of "white." Jews were largely able to assimilate the same way, but with an asterisk* Anti-semitism treats Jews as white or not white -- whichever is convenient to demonize them.

[Res Ipsa]

I’m sure it something to do with whites, at least whites who are concerned with the topic, can’t seem to figure out who’s white or not.

Yeah, Whoopi is just repeating what she heard at Stormfront.

I don't think so. Whoopi was treating Jews as white. The folks at Stormfront view Jews as not-white.

[ajax18]

LOL! Ajax, you overestimate the left's ability to do anything in a planned, coordinated fashion. You folks on the right are much better about organization around an idea and sticking to the script.

The left is very organized. In fact the antidefamation league had to rework its definition of racism developed during the summer of 2020. This definition was similar to Whoopi's definition and followed the intersectional theory that a person considered white cannot be a victim of racial discrimination nor can a person with a darker skin tone be guilty of racial discrimination against a person of a lighter skin tone.

I think the entire thing is crazy. Whoopi should have freedom of speech and a right to her voice her opinion on an opinion show. The only reason I don't give her a pass on this is because of how she relishes cancelling people who are on the other side of the political aisle. If she were to return to classical liberal beliefs that respect the first amendment of the Constitution, I'd defend her right to say what she thinks, but until then we need a mutually assured destruction in cancel culture.

[Jersey Girl]

I doubt it.

Karen Johnson would be done if she were a conservative. Compare what she said and how emphatically she said it with a tweet by Gina Carrano, who disney immediately fired/cancelled. The double standard proves that cancel culture is just a weapon used by the left when it suits their purposes. The only reason they suspended Karen was to protect her from having to answer questions about her view that people with a Jewish skin tone cannot be victims of racism, nor can Muslims with a darker skin tone than be guilty of antisemitism against Jews.

It's kind of interesting that the mainstream media is using the fact that Karen Johnson chose a Jewish surname proves that she is not racist against Jews. I wish the same standard had applied to My Washington Redskins.

Caryn Johnson.
Caryn Elaine Johnson.

[Res Ipsa]

LOL! Ajax, you overestimate the left's ability to do anything in a planned, coordinated fashion. You folks on the right are much better about organization around an idea and sticking to the script.

The left is very organized. In fact the antidefamation league had to rework its definition of racism developed during the summer of 2020. This definition was similar to Whoopi's definition and followed the intersectional theory that a person considered white cannot be a victim of racial discrimination nor can a person with a darker skin tone be guilty of racial discrimination against a person of a lighter skin tone.

I think the entire thing is crazy. Whoopi should have freedom of speech and a right to her voice her opinion on an opinion show. The only reason I don't give her a pass on this is because of how she relishes cancelling people who are on the other side of the political aisle. If she were to return to classical liberal beliefs that respect the first amendment of the Constitution, I'd defend her right to say what she thinks, but until then we need a mutually assured destruction in cancel culture.

LOL. I call tell you from being part of the left that it is extremely disorganized. That disorganization makes it easy for those on the right to caricature the entire left based on extreme and vocal voices on the left.

I think you are confusing freedom of speech with the right to have a platform. The two things are the same only when government provides the platform. Nobody censored what Whoopi said. She exercised her freedom of speech on a privately owned platform that gave her national exposure. People's reaction, including those of her employer, don't affect her freedom of speech. They affect her access to a platform for speaking that neither you nor I have access to. And because the platform is privately owned, and because of the movement in the U.S. to at will employment, the employer gets to decide the conditions under which she is given the platform.

From both a constitutional and classical liberal perspective, I'd say Whoopi enjoyed freedom of speech as envisioned in both. She spoke on the View. She Spoke on the Tonight Show. She Spoke twice (more) on the View. And, if she chose to give a media interview, any major newspaper, TV station, or other outlet would let her speak again. Her freedom of speech hasn't been interfered with in the slightest.

I think that what you are proposing is that no one ever should be allowed to be held accountable by anyone for speech. Or flipped around, you want to restrict my freedom to choose how I respond to something someone else says. That's a weird take that is unsupported by either the constitution or classical liberal ideas.

Neil Young left Spotify because it chose to host Joe Rogan. It's my choice to run out and buy a complete collection of Neil Young's music or to boycott Neil Young, destroy any of his albums that I own, and start a campaign to boycott him. It's also my choice to binge Joe Rogan nonstop on Spotify or delete Spotify from my apps and encourage others to do the same. Those are all freedoms I have under the Constitution and under classical liberal values. Why do you want to take those away from me?

ETA: I forgot to mention that your understanding of intersectionality is ass backwards. Intersectionality doesn't at all lead to the conclusion there are groups of people that can and cannot discriminate against each other. In fact, intersectionality works in exactly the opposite way. In the case of Jews, applying intersectionality would lead us to the conclusion that Jews are disadvantaged as a group in some ways and advantaged in others. What the view that Whoopi expressed ignored intersectionality.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think most consider themselves Jews, and would rather not have to worry about whether they are white or not.

I think that’s fair. My impression is the jewry have a strong self-identity as such that takes primacy over national identity. I couldn’t say if their self-identification is stronger or lesser than any other ethnicity or race, though. Whatever the case may be, it’s understandable when a POC sees a Jew and they see a White person. They wouldn’t necessarily understand the nuances of the transatlantic slave trade, from financiers to auction houses to slave holders. They just see White people running the show, here and abroad, at least in terms of American slavery.

- Doc