Mar-A-Lago Legally Searched by FBI

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MeDotOrg
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

Post by MeDotOrg »

Donald Trump is not the first person to run afoul of the Presidential Records Act. Let's take a trip back to 2005:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger was sentenced Thursday to community service and probation and fined $50,000 for illegally removing highly classified documents from the National Archives and intentionally destroying some of them.

Berger must perform 100 hours of community service and pay the fine as well as $6,905 for the administrative costs of his two-year probation, a district court judge ruled.

"I deeply regret the actions that I took at the National Archives two years ago, and I accept the judgment of the court," Berger said outside the courthouse after his sentencing.

"I'm glad that the 9/11 commission has made clear that it received all the documents that it sought, all the documents that it needed, and I'm pleased to finally have this matter resolved," he added.

Berger reached a plea deal with federal prosecutors in April to avoid a jail sentence.

At that time, he said the reason he took the documents was so he could prepare himself and others to assist the 9/11 commission, which investigated the circumstances surrounding the 2001 terrorist attacks and published a report of its findings last year.

The documents taken by Berger dealt with the terror threats during the 2000 millennium celebration, according to parties in the case.

According to the charges, Berger -- between September 2 and October 2, 2003 -- "knowingly removed classified documents from the National Archives and Records Administration and stored and retained such documents at places," such as his private Washington office.

Berger's associates admit he took five copies of an after-action report detailing the 2000 millennium terror plot from the Archives. The aides say Berger returned to his office, discovered that three of the copies appeared to be duplicates and cut them up with scissors.

The revelations were a dramatic change from Berger's claim last year that he had made an "honest mistake" and either misplaced or unintentionally threw the documents away.

When Archives officials contacted him after they realized documents were missing, Berger told them about the two copies he had, and returned them, along with his handwritten notes, officials said.
Berger's crime was over a specific range of documents, all taken within the period of a month. As we know, BOXES and BOXES of materials, some of them classified, have been found at Mar a Lago previously. IF the Mar a Lago search is about the Classified Records Act, I would think 'probable cause' would be a slam dunk. Unlike Sandy Berger, we're not talking about documents related to one event that were taken over a 30 day period.

My question to those who oppose this action: Without knowing what has been found, why do you automatically say the action was unjustified? Christopher Ray was appointed by Trump. A Federal Judge had to approve the warrant. I agree it is unprecedented, but that does not mean, in and of itself, that the action was unwarranted. If I had to guess, I would imagine that Trump's lawyers were trying to string this along. If he had given up the documents, this wouldn't have happened.
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

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Raiding the compound of the Republican Crime Syndicate's Sacred Cow to obtain illegally purloined documents belonging to the United States.

For this legal act, Speaker McCarthy has vowed vengeance for investigating his crime family. "We Republicans can teach the Sinaloa Crime Cartel a thing or two. If we regain power, there will be hell to pay."
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

Post by canpakes »

Marcus wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:36 pm
Binger wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:02 pm

Now that - is funny.

Uh huh. Yep. Quality and quantity of evidence to show that they had to kick down a door to get some stuff for the archives and that this was the only tool they had left. Yep. In the meantime, we never had enough evidence to figure out who was harming those children but dang, we gotta take care of these archives.

We have a fentanyl crisis and a border crisis but that can wait because some people in Washington need us to serve a warrant on Trump over some boxes for the archives.

There is no quality or quantity that is going to save the FBI's credibility on this one. They are the old KGB and they like it.

Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming - it is deja vu all over, again. The hippies and the cowboys aren't laughing, again.
A perfect illustration of the "there is something worse than that going on--why are you worrying about this?" fallacy. a.k.a. the deflection of "whataboutism?" crossed with the fallacy of relative privation.

I guess that the Gish Gallop of distractions has begun. ; )

Remember, folks aren’t allowed to pay attention to Trump unless they repeat and agree with his BS stolen election grievances. That’s the only option allowed. Otherwise, just clam up.

And, please remember that no-one is allowed to investigate impropriety by a former President and his staff until all of the pet gievances of Republicans are solved by someone other than Republicans.

And, something something Hunter Biden and Epstein. That’s the most important thing.
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

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Moksha wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:17 pm
Raiding the compound of the Republican Crime Syndicate's Sacred Cow to obtain illegally purloined documents belonging to the United States.

For this legal act, Speaker McCarthy has vowed vengeance for investigating his crime family. "We Republicans can teach the Sinaloa Crime Cartel a thing or two. If we regain power, there will be hell to pay."
Merrick Garland can expect to find a horse's head in his bed.
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

Post by Vēritās »

Binger wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:02 pm
Uh huh. Yep. Quality and quantity of evidence to show that they had to kick down a door to get some stuff
Can you support this claim that they kicked a door down?

Many folks are arguing that this wasn't a "raid" at all, but rather the FBI simply executing a search warrant.

You wouldn't be just making stuff up now would you?
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

Post by Vēritās »

Binger wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:30 pm
Vēritās wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:11 pm
Binger arrives,.... "credibility of institutions"... some whataboutism about HC and Hunter.

Gee, pretty much a mirror image of what's being said at FOX.
Kevin, I don't watch FOX but you do.

Oh ok, so what you're saying is that the idiotic sources you get your talking points from is where FOX gets theirs too. Got it.
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

Post by Vēritās »

So let me get this straight. Binger thinks Trump should have free reign over stealing classified documents and storing them at his personal residence because... there is a fentanyl crisis. He's also blathering about having "facts" yet finding it hard to actually come up with any. Low on substance, high on BS as usual. "Kicked the door down"! :lol:
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

Post by Binger »

Vēritās wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:28 pm
So let me get this straight. Binger thinks Trump should have free reign over stealing classified documents and storing them at his personal residence because... there is a fentanyl crisis. He's also blathering about having "facts" yet finding it hard to actually come up with any. Low on substance, high on BS as usual. "Kicked the door down"! :lol:
Kicking doors down is a metaphor for raiding a house. You can handle that, or no?

Want to play word parsing games, Verines? I am way cool with that game.

For example. Nothing that you are alleging in this post is anything that I think or anything that I have said.
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

Post by Binger »

MeDotOrg wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:16 pm
Donald Trump is not the first person to run afoul of the Presidential Records Act. Let's take a trip back to 2005:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger was sentenced Thursday to community service and probation and fined $50,000 for illegally removing highly classified documents from the National Archives and intentionally destroying some of them.

Berger must perform 100 hours of community service and pay the fine as well as $6,905 for the administrative costs of his two-year probation, a district court judge ruled.

"I deeply regret the actions that I took at the National Archives two years ago, and I accept the judgment of the court," Berger said outside the courthouse after his sentencing.

"I'm glad that the 9/11 commission has made clear that it received all the documents that it sought, all the documents that it needed, and I'm pleased to finally have this matter resolved," he added.

Berger reached a plea deal with federal prosecutors in April to avoid a jail sentence.

At that time, he said the reason he took the documents was so he could prepare himself and others to assist the 9/11 commission, which investigated the circumstances surrounding the 2001 terrorist attacks and published a report of its findings last year.

The documents taken by Berger dealt with the terror threats during the 2000 millennium celebration, according to parties in the case.

According to the charges, Berger -- between September 2 and October 2, 2003 -- "knowingly removed classified documents from the National Archives and Records Administration and stored and retained such documents at places," such as his private Washington office.

Berger's associates admit he took five copies of an after-action report detailing the 2000 millennium terror plot from the Archives. The aides say Berger returned to his office, discovered that three of the copies appeared to be duplicates and cut them up with scissors.

The revelations were a dramatic change from Berger's claim last year that he had made an "honest mistake" and either misplaced or unintentionally threw the documents away.

When Archives officials contacted him after they realized documents were missing, Berger told them about the two copies he had, and returned them, along with his handwritten notes, officials said.
Berger's crime was over a specific range of documents, all taken within the period of a month. As we know, BOXES and BOXES of materials, some of them classified, have been found at Mar a Lago previously. IF the Mar a Lago search is about the Classified Records Act, I would think 'probable cause' would be a slam dunk. Unlike Sandy Berger, we're not talking about documents related to one event that were taken over a 30 day period.

My question to those who oppose this action: Without knowing what has been found, why do you automatically say the action was unjustified? Christopher Ray was appointed by Trump. A Federal Judge had to approve the warrant. I agree it is unprecedented, but that does not mean, in and of itself, that the action was unwarranted. If I had to guess, I would imagine that Trump's lawyers were trying to string this along. If he had given up the documents, this wouldn't have happened.
Who said it was unjustified?

I agree that it is unprecedented. And, the FBI has some explaining to do. Without an explanation, they are just serving errands for their king. They better have one hell of an explanation for this.

If I had to guess, it would just be a guess, even if it was right.
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Re: Mar-A-Lago Raided

Post by Some Schmo »

You guys don't understand. Of course this was an illegal search. They had decided it would be before it happened, kind of like how they all decided Trump won the election before he lost it.

Evidence? Well, their gut told them (after a night of jalapeños and tequila).

Trump supporters are retarded. There is no other explanation, unless you want to go with belligerent assholes. That's plausible too. It's probably some weird alchemy involving varying ratios stupidity and belligerence.
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