Trump Desires to be Sued Over Birthright Citizenship, Does Anyone Understand Why?

[Physics Guy]

Lumping fentanyl and illegal immigration together as aspects of a single open-border problem seems like having a house with an open door and complaining that bears and mosquitoes come in.

It's true, bears and mosquitoes are both problems you get from having no door. If you hear someone with no door mixing up their bear and mosquito complaints, though, slipping back and forth within a short speech between the annoying mosquito whining and the bears threatening the children, you can't help wondering about this person. Shouldn't they be focusing more on the bears? Swinging freely between mosquitoes and bears, as if they were all the same problem, is a disturbing sign that this person is not taking their bear problem seriously.

The two problems are the same, this strange person might say, because getting a door would fix both of them. But that's not true at all, and if this person says it, then it's another sign that they're not thinking nearly seriously enough for someone with bears in their house. Not all doors are the same. A screen door will fix the mosquitoes, but if you're in bear country you need a steel door in a steel frame. You're going to need steel shutters and a solid roof, and a lockable steel trash bin. And you're going to have to change your lifestyle, to stop tossing all those table scraps into the yard every night. Even getting a solid steel door won't solve the bear problem all by itself, and getting a screen door won't help at all with the bear problem.

Every second you spend thinking about how easily that cheap screen door is going to solve your mosquito problem is a second you're not facing the bear threat. By all means get a solid steel door, to help keep out those bears, but why on earth would you even be mentioning mosquitoes until the bear problem is under control?

I'm afraid I can only imagine two reasons. One is that you know that just getting the door won't fix the bear problem, but getting a door will at least fix the mosquitoes, so you bait and switch. You talk about bears to establish the urgency of getting the door, and then you talk about mosquitoes when you want to talk about how well the door will actually work.

The other is that you don't actually care at all about the bears. You sleep upstairs anyway. You keep mentioning mosquitoes because they are the problem you care about, and you only talk about the bears as a way to get the screen door you want.

[Markk]

Lumping fentanyl and illegal immigration together as aspects of a single open-border problem seems like having a house with an open door and complaining that bears and mosquitoes come in.

It's true, bears and mosquitoes are both problems you get from having no door. If you hear someone with no door mixing up their bear and mosquito complaints, though, slipping back and forth within a short speech between the annoying mosquito whining and the bears threatening the children, you can't help wondering about this person. Shouldn't they be focusing more on the bears? Swinging freely between mosquitoes and bears, as if they were all the same problem, is a disturbing sign that this person is not taking their bear problem seriously.

The two problems are the same, this strange person might say, because getting a door would fix both of them. But that's not true at all, and if this person says it, then it's another sign that they're not thinking nearly seriously enough for someone with bears in their house. Not all doors are the same. A screen door will fix the mosquitoes, but if you're in bear country you need a steel door in a steel frame. You're going to need steel shutters and a solid roof, and a lockable steel trash bin. And you're going to have to change your lifestyle, to stop tossing all those table scraps into the yard every night. Even getting a solid steel door won't solve the bear problem all by itself, and getting a screen door won't help at all with the bear problem.

Every second you spend thinking about how easily that cheap screen door is going to solve your mosquito problem is a second you're not facing the bear threat. By all means get a solid steel door, to help keep out those bears, but why on earth would you even be mentioning mosquitoes until the bear problem is under control?

I'm afraid I can only imagine two reasons. One is that you know that just getting the door won't fix the bear problem, but getting a door will at least fix the mosquitoes, so you bait and switch. You talk about bears to establish the urgency of getting the door, and then you talk about mosquitoes when you want to talk about how well the door will actually work.

The other is that you don't actually care at all about the bears. You sleep upstairs anyway. You keep mentioning mosquitoes because they are the problem you care about, and you only talk about the bears as a way to get the screen door you want.

The issue is a near open border with broken policies that greatly allows illegal immigration and drug trafficking....along with all kinds of other issues, such as the trafficking of children and women. The cartels are growing their influences into our country for all these different reasons, drugs being paramount.

Again, your denials of what is happening to our country because of the open border policies is one of the reasons the left is losing credibility within their own party, and the nation over all.

Your analogy is just a very weak strawman, for one mosquitoes kill far more people than bears each year, it is not even close. Via a quick google, bears kill few people each year, one site I read states there are around 40 bear attacks a year, while mosquitoes kill millions each year, some 700 K directly and even more indirectly by the diseases they can spread. And your analogy does not mention the US government programs that are mitigating mosquitos, and wild animal control. In the US, we spend millions doing both....if we did nothing about mosquitos, malaria and other diseases would be huge problem, it is why we spend millions each year on control. Fish and Game has a budget of 4 billion, and one thing they do is manage bear populations.

The larger issue is with your analogy is that it just shows your inability to see that there is a problem and connection with illegal immigration and the drug problem we have in our country i.e., the open border policies of the last administration and the total lack of competency to address it.

Controlling the border, helps control all the issues we are dealing with, and caused by it. Drugs are killing hundreds tens of thousands of Americans each year and is a huge financial burden. Illegal immigration kills less, but equally is a very large burden on our system. All caused by purposely allowing an open border for political reasons.

[Markk]

This, your reply, is why the left is losing the confidence with more and more Americans, and part of why they lost the election. You know perfectly well the issues here, I hope. If you don't, the connection, and common denominator is the lax border policy.

‘Lax border policy’, drug enforcement efforts and the debate over immigration are not linked in the way you present. If every border crosser was (1) carrying fentanyl or precursors and (2) a noncitizen, then you’d have a point. But this is far, far, far from the case, especially given how many American citizens have been found to be carrying fentanyl across the border.

In short, you can’t rationalize your attitudes towards border crossers in general on the drug choices and addictions of Americans.

I can link it to a lax border. I never said every border crosser carry's fentanyl across the border. You are just searching for strawmen, while confirming the issue of a lax border under Biden. Ok yes, American citizens carry drugs over the border, cartel drugs, over, through, around.... a weakened border. And Trump is going to go after those folks very hard. Do you have a problem with that?

Immigration problems and drug smuggling at a weakened border are linked, to the weakened border.

Again this is one of the reason the left is struggling...their denial of there is a problem.

[Markk]

For reference, the "lax border policy" last year resulted in the seizure of 175,000 pounds of marijuana, 174,000 pounds of meth, 68,200 pounds of cocaine, 21,900 pounds of fentanyl, 1,200 pounds of heroin, 17,600 pounds of khat, 7,300 pounds of ketamine, 609 pounds of ecstasy, 14 pounds of LSD, and over 100,000 pounds of other illegal drugs.

As some not-so-fun math, the amount of fentanyl stopped from entering the US last year alone is enough to kill half of the world's population in a single overdose.

Which is a drop in the bucket that get over, to the cartels, that is just the cost of doing business.

More later.

[canpakes]

I can link it to a lax border.

‘Lax’ is another squishy, fairly meaningless word. Use the stats to make your case for your link.

From - https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnua ... FY2024.pdf

[Markk]

I can link it to a lax border.

‘Lax’ is another squishy, fairly meaningless word. Use the stats to make your case for your link.

From - https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnua ... FY2024.pdf

It is "lax" enough to help supply the the almost 40 million Americans with drug addictions. There is such a large amount of drugs coming into the country over our two borders that they can't even, or choose not to let it be known, just how much gets across.

CBP officers and agents successfully interdict a significant amount of illicit drug substances smuggled into the U.S., but obviously cannot completely stop the flow of all drugs into the country. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) stated in December 2022 that the agency seized more than 10,000 pounds of fentanyl powder in the U.S. in 2022, while noting that “[m]ost of the fentanyl being trafficked by the Sinaloa and CJNC Cartels is being mass-produced at secret factories in Mexico with chemicals sourced largely from China.”

If law enforcement agencies working in the U.S. are interdicting illicit fentanyl made in Mexico, it is conclusive that illicit drug substances are being successfully smuggled into the country. While we do not have specific numbers on the amount that “gets away” or is not interdicted, it is important to consider that CBP and other border authorities may need additional resources to further stop the flow of illicit substances into the U.S.

The Congressional Research Service (CRS) noted in July 2019 that “[o]f the total amount of illicit drugs that reach the U.S. border by land, air, or sea… an unknown portion is successfully smuggled into the country.” CBP is the primary agency charged with safeguarding U.S. borders, but it is not the only agency that seizes illicit drugs, including at the border. Federal, state, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies are involved in enforcement actions that may result in drug seizures. The CRS report notes that “there is no central database housing information on illicit drug seizures from all law enforcement agencies, federal or otherwise.” And, even with such a central database, its insight into successful drug smuggling might be imprecise. It is therefore hard to ascertain the amount of illicit drug substances successfully smuggled into the U.S.

But again its enough to supply the millions Americans that consume them. One article I read stated from the DHS estimates that the cartels take home between 19-30 billion a year, which shows a weak and "lax" border.

We will see more success now that the new administration is tightening the border up. And we will hopefully see crime statistics rise, as arrests are made and more smugglers are caught and prosecuted. Far too many are released with little or zero consequence, apart from maybe being skinned alive or dismembered as they return to face the cartels.

Off topic a bit, maybe a good topic for a new thread, but overall I believe we will see a statistical rise in crime, if law enforcement starts arresting more aggressively again, and the DA's once again start filing on criminals. I know from talking to my law enforcement family and friends, moral is higher that it has been in a very long time. And hopefully law enforcement will get more resect, and more young people will want to enter into it, so the standards for new hires can move back to, and hopefully above where they were.


https://immigrationforum.org/article/il ... -overview/

[Markk]

For reference, the "lax border policy" last year resulted in the seizure of 175,000 pounds of marijuana, 174,000 pounds of meth, 68,200 pounds of cocaine, 21,900 pounds of fentanyl, 1,200 pounds of heroin, 17,600 pounds of khat, 7,300 pounds of ketamine, 609 pounds of ecstasy, 14 pounds of LSD, and over 100,000 pounds of other illegal drugs.

As some not-so-fun math, the amount of fentanyl stopped from entering the US last year alone is enough to kill half of the world's population in a single overdose.

Which is a drop in the bucket that get over, to the cartels, that is just the cost of doing business.

More later.

Steuss,

I just spent a good 2 hours or so searching for an estimated amount of drugs that do get across, and the clear answer is they just don't know. But we do know that tens of millions of Americans buy these drugs each day, and we know that per our government the cartels are racking in 10-30 billion a year.

It is overwhelming sifting through the data, but again one thing is certain, it is a huge issue and I am glad we have an administration that will go after this seriously. It is the right thing to do, I believe that.

This is anecdotal, kind of, my friend that is involved in combating this, shares pictures like the one I linked below all the time and tells me just what his team seizes, and deals with. His is just one team of of a nation wide joint task force. He says it is just basically a drop in the bucket, and that they will never completely stop unless the demands stops. Tough love, I suppose.

https://x.com/sbcountysheriff/status/17 ... 7019874738

[Physics Guy]

Again, your denials of what is happening to our country because of the open border policies is one of the reasons the left is losing credibility within their own party, and the nation over all.

I'm not denying anything about any problems the USA may have with its border. I have no idea what's going on there. I haven't lived in the US for twenty years and I lived closest to its border when I lived in Canada over thirty years ago. And I don't care how much credibility "the left" has with anyone. I am just confused about your position. Conceivably your conclusions are right, but what you say doesn't seem to make sense.

Your analogy is just a very weak strawman, for one mosquitoes kill far more people than bears each year, it is not even close. Via a quick google, bears kill few people each year, one site I read states there are around 40 bear attacks a year, while mosquitoes kill millions each year, some 700 K directly and even more indirectly by the diseases they can spread. And your analogy does not mention the US government programs that are mitigating mosquitos, and wild animal control. In the US, we spend millions doing both....if we did nothing about mosquitos, malaria and other diseases would be huge problem, it is why we spend millions each year on control. Fish and Game has a budget of 4 billion, and one thing they do is manage bear populations.

The reason mosquitoes in general do more harm than bears in general is that there are many more mosquitoes, so you are much more likely to meet a mosquito than to meet a bear. In my analogical story, though, the bears are already there. You have had the bad luck of meeting them, so now their rarity does not help you. I sure as heck would rather deal with a mosquito in my house than with a bear in my house. So your arguments about mosquitoes really being worse than bears make no sense, inside my story.

Outside the story, the bears are supposed to stand for fentanyl while the mosquitoes represent illegal immigrants. So are you arguing that illegal immigrants who work low-income jobs are doing more harm to Americans than fentanyl?

The larger issue is with your analogy is that it just shows your inability to see that there is a problem and connection with illegal immigration and the drug problem we have in our country i.e., the open border policies of the last administration and the total lack of competency to address it.

This is just complaining that I don't already agree with you. It doesn't make your position any clearer.

Controlling the border, helps control all the issues we are dealing with, and caused by it. Drugs are killing hundreds tens of thousands of Americans each year and is a huge financial burden. Illegal immigration kills less, but equally is a very large burden on our system. All caused by purposely allowing an open border for political reasons.

This seems to be exactly what the "strange person" in my story said, that a door will fix both bears and mosquitoes. The point of most of the story was that defeating bears and defeating mosquitoes need different kinds of doors, and bears need more than just a door. To spell out the analogy: "closing the border" isn't one thing. It will take a large set of difficult measures to close a long border to illegal immigrants, and it will take a mostly different set of difficult measures to close that border to drugs—and then it will take more than just closing the border to get rid of fentanyl.

[Markk]

PG: I'm not denying anything about any problems the USA may have with its border. I have no idea what's going on there.

LOL, okay, I agree, you don't have any idea. You are then forming your opinions of it, by what?

As far as there being more mosquitos than bears? Yes that is true, far more, but mosquitos still kill millions, while bears kill few. Your straw-man fell.

So what is going on, that you have no idea about, at our borders,... is a influx of unvetted people coming in, many criminals in their own countries. Many being exploited by Mexican cartels....along with billions of dollars of Illegal drugs, that are addicting and killing hundreds of thousands Americans, and costing tax payers who knows how many millions if not billions trying to manage it and the mess that comes with it.

I'll give you a analogy, if you have a leak in your plumbing upstairs, it will cause many problems.....plaster repairs, structural repairs, mildew, molds electrical, and all kinds of other issues.....the first thing that should happen is what; shut off the valve to stop the damage from getting worse? So it is with the border, it has been leaking for a very long time and now we have a huge mess to clean up, but again first we need to try to shut off the valve that the previous administration opened even wider.

Outside the story, the bears are supposed to stand for fentanyl while the mosquitoes represent illegal immigrants. So are you arguing that illegal immigrants who work low-income jobs are doing more harm to Americans than fentanyl?

No, I never said that at all. I am saying they both hurt our country in different ways, and both need attention and mitigation and it starts with control of the border, or as in my analogy shutting off the water valve. There are criminals and even terrorists coming across the border mixed in with good folks wanting high and low income jobs. We have a work visa program for people that want jobs, from doctors to maids..... there is no excuse to by pass the SOP for that.

Drugs are bad, and so is illegal immigration....along with human trafficking, sex trafficking, child trafficking, and even animal trafficking. It is all one huge problem with different veins.

This seems to be exactly what the "strange person" in my story said, that a door will fix both bears and mosquitoes. The point of most of the story was that defeating bears and defeating mosquitoes need different kinds of doors, and bears need more than just a door. To spell out the analogy: "closing the border" isn't one thing. It will take a large set of difficult measures to close a long border to illegal immigrants, and it will take a mostly different set of difficult measures to close that border to drugs—and then it will take more than just closing the border to get rid of fentanyl.

Huh? I thought you had "no idea" what is going on at the border?

What it will take is first a nation admitting we have a problem, and then a united effort to stop it. And yes, it will take different measures in that there are different problems.... that is a given. It is why we have different departments to deal with the different illegal things occurring and coming over our borders.

If we were united we could stop it in short time, there is no doubt about that in my opinion.

[canpakes]

Drugs are bad, and so is illegal immigration....

To PG’s point, if you remove all of the illegal immigrants from the border situation, you haven’t even rid yourself of a fifth of the drug importation problem.

US Citizens Were 80 Percent of Crossers with Fentanyl at Ports of Entry from 2019 to 2024

By David J. Bier

Many people wrongly believe that immigration is critical to the illicit supply of fentanyl in the United States. However, proponents of this view have offered little more than speculation to support it. New data obtained by the Cato Institute via a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request calls this belief into question. The new dataset shows that US citizens comprised 80 percent of individuals caught with fentanyl during border crossings at ports of entry from 2019 to 2024.

The FOIA dataset contains individual records regarding each person encountered by officials at US ports of entry from whom fentanyl was seized. Figure 1 shows the citizenship of individuals arrested with fentanyl from fiscal year (FY) 2019 to 2024, as of June. Overall, the dataset reveals that out of 7,569 individuals associated with a fentanyl seizure, 6,123 were US citizens, or 80.9 percent.

The data are most relevant to understanding fentanyl seizure activity because the vast majority of fentanyl is seized at ports of entry, not between the ports where people cross illegally. Figure 2 breaks down fentanyl seizures by location. From FY 2015 to 2024, 88 percent of all fentanyl was seized at ports of entry, basically the same as in FY 2024. Another 4 percent was seized at vehicle checkpoints on highways after the ports. Only 8 percent was seized by Border Patrol on patrol, and many of those seizures came from vehicle stops as well. The seizure data supports the qualitative assessments of the Drug Enforcement Agency, Customs and Border Protection (CBP), and the Office of National Drug Policy based on investigative work. Even Bill Barr, while serving as attorney general under President Donald Trump, agreed.

Drug trafficking organizations hire US citizens because they are guaranteed the right of entry into the United States and are subject to less scrutiny at ports than individuals without citizenship. Data from the US Sentencing Commission reinforces the impression that US citizens are the primary method for fentanyl cross-border drug trafficking. From 2018 to 2023, US citizens accounted for 2,315 of the 2,905 convicted drug traffickers in southwest border districts (80 percent). The number of US citizens involved in fentanyl trafficking has risen more rapidly than it has for other traffickers since 2018.

Complete article with graphs:

https://www.cato.org/blog/us-citizens-w ... une%202024.