Impeachment hearings

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_moksha
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _moksha »

mikwut wrote:Even in the grand scale of the United States Senate they are human, just all too human.

Close to 53% of them may be even less than you estimate. Well, the proof is in the pudding. Will that brown color they are about to serve up be chocolate or something else?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Icarus
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _Icarus »

mikwut wrote:The one thing I am surprised by is the Nadler retributions towards the Senate. That was a bit of drama but the wrong kind. That kind of patronizing and insulting language never persuades the audience your trying to persuade. I understand he was talking to the American people as his audience and not necessarily the Senate, but people generally don't like that condescending ____.


That's your beef?

First, Trump attorneys lied to the Chief Justice on multiple claims while flat out calling Adam Schiff a liar when he most certainly didn't lie. I've never seen such a weak case where attorneys for the defense have to rely primarily on lies that have been debunked for weeks.

The attorney's were throwing out red meat to Trump's rabid, FOX News loving base and effectively degrading the Senate in ways never before seen. But that doesn't upset you. You're upset when Nadler responds by pointing out obvious truths that need to be said about the Republicans who are now complicit in a kangaroo court/coverup. When 100% of all Republicans vote to exclude all witnesses and new evidence, that's a coverup. When the Senate Majority leader lies to the American public beforehand by promising the rules would be just like that of the Clinton impeachment, but then requires arguments of 24 hrs to happen within a 72 hr period so that the bulk of the evidence is presented when most of America has gone to bed, well that's a coverup. Nadler needed to disclose the fact that this wasn't normal and he did a great job of it.

If anyone is interested in "retribution" it is obviously Senate Republicans and Trump's defense team who are justifying their ludicrous behavior on the dubious claims of "unfairness" during the House inquiry. Basically saying, "Oh you were unfair to Trump for months so now we're going to be unfair to you!"

The irony in all this is that Senate Republicans are suddenly pretending to care about civility once they get a dose of their own medicine, and they're blindly defending a man who on that same day called Nadler a “sleazebag” and “stupid” and characterized his remarks as “Nadler nonsense.”
"One of the hardest things for me to accept is the fact that Kevin Graham has blonde hair, blue eyes and an English last name. This ugly truth blows any arguments one might have for actual white supremacism out of the water. He's truly a disgrace." - Ajax
_Gunnar
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _Gunnar »

Maybe Nadler deserved some reprimand from Justice Roberts for how bluntly he accused Trump's defense team of lying, but there is no longer any reasonable doubt that they did in fact lie, and I think even most of the Republican Senators know it. It only becomes ever clearer that the Republicans are hell bent on acquitting Trump, no matter how guilty he is or how serious his misdeeds. It is mind boggling that Trump is now actually bragging about doing the very thing he is on trial for--namely obstructing Congress by withholding Ukraine evidence!
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_aussieguy55
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _aussieguy55 »

a Twitter feed doing the rounds Schiff Rocks

https://www.Facebook.com/austhelanddown ... 0346257111

Amusing joke from down under shared to me by my daughter.
Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
_Some Schmo
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _Some Schmo »

Yeah, I'll just say, this impeachment thing is the fabled back-breaking straw for me. I've lost all hope for humanity. When something this obvious is ignored by half the country, I think it's probably better the whole thing blows up. The idiots win.

Might as well rip that band-aid off. The GOP intends to rape us all. Best to lay back, think of England and hope it ends soon.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_DarkHelmet
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Perfume on my Mind wrote:Yeah, I'll just say, this impeachment thing is the fabled back-breaking straw for me. I've lost all hope for humanity. When something this obvious is ignored by half the country, I think it's probably better the whole thing blows up. The idiots win.

Might as well rip that band-aid off. The GOP intends to rape us all. Best to lay back, think of England and hope it ends soon.


This country has a long history of political divisions. We fought a war over the biggest political issue of the 19th century. Years from now, when Trump has moved off this mortal coil and is either a rotting corpse, burning in hell, or lying to the missionaries in spirit prison about his immoral lifestyle, and his legacy is in the history books, and when Republican politicians no longer need to appeal to his base, I suspect the vast majority of people will not be kind to Trump and his supporters during this era. In fact, I would bet that the vast majority of people will claim they never liked Trump.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
_MissTish
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _MissTish »

DarkHelmet wrote: In fact, I would bet that the vast majority of people will claim they never liked Trump.



David Frum has this as his pinned tweet:


When this is all over, nobody will admit to ever having supported it
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people, Jeremy.- Super Hans

We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.- H. L. Mencken
_mikwut
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _mikwut »

Hi Gunnar,

So what you seem to be arguing is that in the American legal system (or, by implication, any other legal system) the questions of what is true or false, fair or unfair, even just or unjust is almost totally irrelevant. The only thing that really matters is which side controls the most wealth, power or influence. We should give up even the pretense of striving for truth, fairness or justice?


I don't think it is totally irrelevant Gunnar, but it does take a far back seat to other realities. There is no doubt about that. Just look at the country itself. Please don't take this as I am a Trump supporter, it is for illustration purposes. The emotion towards Trump wither for or against is so high that one side can hardly say a good thing about his presidency and the other can hardly say a bad. I am unaware of any human endeavor that is that black and white when it comes right down to the truth of the matter. But emotion rules over policy, pragmatism and getting things done. I just think those are the categories of truth we should swim in rather than a ideal of truth that is akin to scientific reasoning (we should obvious value scientific reasoning). Otherwise, nihilism rules the day.

mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell.
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"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
_Gunnar
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _Gunnar »

mikwut wrote:I don't think it is totally irrelevant Gunnar, but it does take a far back seat to other realities. There is no doubt about that. Just look at the country itself. Please don't take this as I am a Trump supporter, it is for illustration purposes. The emotion towards Trump wither for or against is so high that one side can hardly say a good thing about his presidency and the other can hardly say a bad. I am unaware of any human endeavor that is that black and white when it comes right down to the truth of the matter. But emotion rules over policy, pragmatism and getting things done. I just think those are the categories of truth we should swim in rather than a ideal of truth that is akin to scientific reasoning (we should obvious value scientific reasoning). Otherwise, nihilism rules the day.

mikwut

Thank you for your reply. I am just very much afraid that if Trump is acquitted this time, he will be so further emboldened that there will be virtually nothing that is so bad or outrageous that he will not try to get away with, or that leading Republicans will not let him get away with, if he feels it necessary to ensure his reelection this coming November.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Impeachment hearings

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Question. Does anyone else feel completely SICK about this trial?

I mean like we're watching the US careening to hell in a handbasket and there's not a damn thing we can do about it?

Until the election I suppose. But still.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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