Systemic Racism in America Exists

[Chap]

[...] If someone has a testimony of evolution is it based on a personal witness? Did they actually see their monkey uncle and monkey aunt and then saw them do that thing like in Clan of the Cave Bear and then they had a human baby? Maybe since nobody witnessed that sequence we are good to call it the Theory of Evolution. [...]

I wonder what you think 'evolution' means. and whether your idea bears any resemblance to what those persons who actually work in the field mean by it?

On 'theories': science (unlike religion) is always open to correction: you don't 'have a testimony' of a scientific theory, you just think (at best) that it it very likely to be true, or at worst that it probably is untrue. However, there are many theories such as relativity (on which your GPS system depends to locate you correctly) which have been tested and confirmed by so many different people so many times and in ways that you can repeat for yourself that doubt about their truth is now reduced to vanishingly small levels.

The theory that current biological species are the result of a long evolution from earlier forms is now pretty well in that state too.

[Chap]

Calling wisdom abuse for a while should correct that. Calling people abusers is a step in the right direction which is exactly what we should be doing. Its not enough.

So it's going to be wall-to-wall 'ain't I cute' irony from you for now on.

Good to know what to expect.

[canpakes]

I’m definitely pro-honesty with history with regard to what’s being taught in schools. I do think there’s a responsibility, though, with how it’s taught and how we can look at the past to be better, rather than simply take out grievances on *insert racial or ethnic group here*. We’ve been around long enough to witness what happens when scapegoats are made of any group, and it never really ends well.

Absolutely agree. I see an issue in that we can’t know for sure what someone’s motivation is in every situation for every action; if proponents of critical race theory are always framing motivation through the lens of racism then there will be problems with the approach and discussion.

Separately, historical examples where ‘scapegoats are made of (a) group’, it’s not usually a group with less social power making the charge. Here, it’s interesting to watch a counter-grievance build within the group that perceives itself to be ‘the scapegoated’… and how that drives their reactions. In a way, proponents of critical race theory are forcing the conversation by prodding their target, with a sort of muted alternative to the race riots that were the catalysts for change in the 1960’s.

I wonder what folks would imagine the outcome if their worst imagined fears about critical race theory were realized. What drives those fears? That’s an interesting comparison to the historical relationship between POC and ‘whites’, in America.

ETA: If any and every uncomfortable discussion regarding race is tossed under the critical race theory banner by opponents, and opponents then stifle or outlaw all academic discussion, then there never has to be consideration for any actual issues, and therefore no solutions need ever be explored. We can go back to just assuming that blacks are the sole cause of their own perceived issues.

I think that critical race theory proponents would like to upend that prevailing assumption.

[Atlanticmike]

Thank you sir.
https://youtu.be/7rQve0x4aNE

Atlanticmike, I did actually listen through this whole video. It presented reasonable comments without hysterics.

condensing there were four main points( he numbered them)
1power and oppression does not explain everything. There is also love and respect.
2power and priveledge is relative. A given person might have advantage in one circumstance and not another.
3lived experience is not infallible. No one is above critique. We might misunderstand wisdom as oppression.
4 If power must be overthrown then the new power must be overthrown resulting in a meaningless chaotic cycle.
///
I think each of these points is true. Each of these points are important aspect of being human for all of us. In fact I have difficulty thinking that adult people are unaware of these clear facts. Now I do pause to think there may be a few overwrought adolescents shouting that forget these things. I remain fairly sure that even these people remember when they get a moment to remember themselves. They also get older with a little time.

Thanks huckleberry! In 2019 the US Census Bureau put out a 1 year estimate of selected population profile. I think caucasians were 14th on the list for highest median household income. Indian Americans were #1 with an average median income of $116,000, Chinese Americans $81000, Filipino Americans $79000, Japanese Americans $82000, Bangladesh, Cambodian, Taiwanese, Korean, laotion,bPakistani, Thai, Burmese, and so on. Then, if you factor in Nigerians who come to America (BLACK PEOPLE), today 62% of Nigerians Americans over the age of 25 hold a graduate degree compared to 32% of the US born population. Nigerian Americans, (black people) have a median household income of $62500 compared to $57000 nationally.
Personally, I'm sick and tired of hearing America is systemically racist! America is the land of opportunity, that's why people are literally willing to die to get here. There's no caravans walking to Mexico!! There's no caravans waking to Canada to escape systemic racism! Why??
https://youtu.be/3a3stEEvuLQ

This man is amazing, what do you think?
https://youtu.be/p-154SatBqQ

[canpakes]

Atlanticmike, noting your inconsistently-applied qualifier of ‘household’ income, can you provide a link to your source?

That’s quite a mish-mash of categories you’ve tossed together. Can’t imagine why you’d do that. ; )

[Dwight]

I mostly completely agree. We should pick who we demonize and make sure they are the right demons. Take Mitt Romney for example, he should not be demonized now but his dad should be demonized now. And Romney should have been demonized before but not now, for racism and sexism. He also probably voted right so he should not be demonized now. Definitely we need to not demonize all the Whites but we should absolutely demonize the wrong ones. This is what I mean by calling them abusers for a long time until the field is level.

Could you clarify this? George Romney was a champion of civil rights, and marched for them, and never backed down even when Delbert Stapley wrote him a letter making clear of the "doctrine". Mitt would preemptively not take a position contrary to the church's. Mitt is not the worst, but his dad was quite progressive and would not endorse Republican opposed to civil rights. While I may not agree with all his positions I could at least accept the man had a spine and some integrity.

[canpakes]

There's no caravans waking to Canada to escape systemic racism!

There’s a different sort of caravan in motion:

The number of Indian international students studying at Canadian universities rose from 76,075 in 2016 to 172,625 in 2018, an increase of 127%, according to the Canadian Bureau for International Education. In contrast, at U.S. universities, the number of international students from India enrolled in graduate-level programs in computer science and engineering fell by 21% (18,590 fewer graduate students) from 2016 to 2017.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartande ... hing-rate/

[canpakes]

I mostly completely agree. We should pick who we demonize and make sure they are the right demons. Take Mitt Romney for example, he should not be demonized now but his dad should be demonized now. And Romney should have been demonized before but not now, for racism and sexism. He also probably voted right so he should not be demonized now. Definitely we need to not demonize all the Whites but we should absolutely demonize the wrong ones. This is what I mean by calling them abusers for a long time until the field is level.

Could you clarify this? George Romney was a champion of civil rights, and marched for them, and never backed down even when Delbert Stapley wrote him a letter making clear of the "doctrine". Mitt would preemptively not take a position contrary to the church's. Mitt is not the worst, but his dad was quite progressive and would not endorse Republican opposed to civil rights. While I may not agree with all his positions I could at least accept the man had a spine and some integrity.

There will be no clarification. Cultellus is trolling. ; )

[Atlanticmike]

Atlanticmike, noting your inconsistently-applied qualifier of ‘household’ income, can you provide a link to your source?

That’s quite a mish-mash of categories you’ve tossed together. Can’t imagine why you’d do that. ; )

I'm gluing down a roof today so I don't have any free time to send links. But if you look at Wikipedia " list of ethnic groups in the United States by household income" then go to "by detailed races" you'll see at least a dozen or more races have a median household income higher than Caucasian Americans. Caucasians have a median income around $ 65000. Nigerian Americans had a medium household income of $68000. If I have time tonight I'll send you the links to the 2019 Census Bureau statistics. That's where I originally got it.

[canpakes]

Atlanticmike, noting your inconsistently-applied qualifier of ‘household’ income, can you provide a link to your source?

That’s quite a mish-mash of categories you’ve tossed together. Can’t imagine why you’d do that. ; )

I'm gluing down a roof today so I don't have any free time to send links. But if you look at Wikipedia " list of ethnic groups in the United States by household income" then go to "by detailed races" you'll see at least a dozen or more races have a median household income higher than Caucasian Americans. Caucasians have a median income around $ 65000. Nigerian Americans had a medium household income of $68000. If I have time tonight I'll send you the links to the 2019 Census Bureau statistics. That's where I originally got it.

Ah. This page:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _ethnicity

… where the below statistics can be found, before you start cherry picking by heritage and other specific qualifiers:

Race and Ethnicity
Population Median household income (US$)

Asian Americans. - 87,243
White Americans - 65,902
African Americans - 43,862

That shines a different light on your claim.

And that’s household income*. That doesn’t speak to individual salary/income.

*Household income is a measure of the combined incomes of all people sharing a particular household or place of residence. It includes every form of income, e.g., salaries and wages, retirement income, near cash government transfers like food stamps, and investment gains.

African Americans are 86th out of 92 on your detailed list by heritage.