I Wonder?

[Guest]

On his phone call with Rachel Jeantel, she speculated that perhaps GZ was a sexual pervert, .

Yeah, ok.

This one is a little over the top, even for you. I know you want to defend TM... But that's too much.

- Doc

[_beastie]

On his phone call with Rachel Jeantel, she speculated that perhaps GZ was a sexual pervert, .

Yeah, ok.

This one is a little over the top, even for you. I know want to defend TM... But that's too much.

- Doc

Why is it over the top? Why is it inconceivable that TM was frightened of this "creepy" man who was following him for no apparent reason?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

You're insinuating GZ wanted to rape TM. That's beyond the pale.

- Doc

[_schreech]

1. I live in Utah now...

I figured...check!

2. I've owned several guns. I've also used many types of guns, and am an Ex Marine, Expert Marksman.

so you don't currently own any guns...check!

3. I've known many black people, having lived in Georgia and California and in the Marines, including one year my best friend being black. Though you people would call him an Uncle Tom, and all kinds of other racist things. He wasn't a liberal. I've also attended a black congregational church.

so you don't currently associate with any blacks...check! (I also love how you threw in there that for 1 year, your best friend was black...classic)

4. I've been in many fights, while young stopping bullies and being beat on by bullies and brothers. I'm also an expert Martial Artist who's trained in several disciplines, as well when young played several sports. In the Marines I defended a partially r******* kid from a black man who was a bully and he gathered friends that night and put a beat down on me with about 7 other blacks, and I fought and scared them off after many shots to the head while on the ground before being able to get up and give them some good hits. This event also caused a severe case of sinusitis not long after due to the head traumas. There have been other events, none of which I lost, not to mention training and some competition..

CFR on the martial arts expert. Also, in all these "fights" you claim to have been in (where you were beat in the head much like GZ claims), would you have shot the people beating you up if you had a handgun?

5. I have trained to be an officer, but changed my career, and I've worked in the non-policing fields of law enforcement and related fields.

so, no you have never worked in law enforcement...check!

6. You are a complete ignorant fool, knowing nothing, but thinking you know everything.

Looks like I was right on almost all accounts (assuming you aren't just making sh&* up, like you normally do, regarding item 4)

by the way, what was your MOS?

[_schreech]

You're insinuating GZ wanted to rape TM. That's beyond the pale.

- Doc

She hasnt insinuated anything about what GZ wanted, she is just giving you a suggestion about what TM could have been thinking...

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

You're insinuating GZ wanted to rape TM. That's beyond the pale.

- Doc

She hasn't insinuated anything about what GZ wanted, she is just giving you a suggestion about what TM could have been thinking...

Uh. No. The words are right there. Insinuation is a bitch... Because, you know... You can just insinuate something, and then let people run with it.

I seriously am mystified by the people on this board. Boggled.

- Doc

[_ldsfaqs]

What "perplexes" you? Please clarify.

Perplexed is probably too strong of a word, but what has my noggin’ slightly itching is…

Early you had stated:

Further, the pictures show the evidence of Trayvon's damage.... Yet YOU would have us believe that Zimmerman should have just let himself be potentially killed, by letting it continue.

I definitely haven’t had your extensive experience of beating up bullies (embarrasingly, because I used to be a bit of a bully before the wonders of medication), but from my own experiences, Zimmerman's injuries were what one would expect to be inflicted by a twiggy teenager whose only instruction on fighting had been from Hollywood, and a few street fights with other twiggy teenagers.

It’s very possible that Zimmerman had never been in a real fight before, and believed his life was in danger, but based on his injuries, I personally don’t see how the “damage” left by Trayvon could lead someone with extensive experience with fighting to believe that Zimmerman’s life was in critical danger.

Trayvon weighed less than probably half of the girls I’ve dated, and in my opinion, this is quite evident in the “damage” he inflicted.

At least that’s my $.02 (which is probably only worth about $.00025, due to inflation).

Cut's in several places on the back of his head from his head being banged against the concrete, a huge swollen broken nose and other markings.

I don't know about you, but that's reasonable cause to me. Further, at what point in your mind should a person allow themselves to be beat up before they are "justified" in your mind to defend themselves in the only way they can to stop it? I mean, it seems clear Trayvon overwhelmed Zimmerman, because there were ZERO marks on Trayvon, thus his only option was violent force.

Further, one hit can cause permanent serious damage and even death, again, at what point should person allow themselves to to risk their lives?

What about Police? If police aren't expected to allow people to beat on them, why should a citizen who isn't even trained to deal with bad guys like police are for the most part?

I mean, I've been giving many scenario's and asking important questions like these that challenge liberal logic, and they are ignored. Will you answer them?

I'm also still waiting for an answer to the question about what if Trayvon actually had been a criminal and Zimmerman was able to stop a criminal act by keeping an eye on Trayvon and he was able to lead the cops to the guy? Zimmerman would have been considered a hero, but in the liberal mind because in this case, because Zimmerman kept an eye, didn't obey dispatch recommendations, he's somehow "in the wrong" simply because the end result ended up in death?

Oh, and that's another thing, how did Zimmerman kill an "innocent", when Trayvon committed a crime by assaulting Zimmerman, and ONLY THEN was when deadly force used to stop the assault? I've also seen this before with punks.... They don't like you eying them etc., and they will beat you up.

This and other questions are ignored, because they show the flaws of condemning a man, making him at fault, simply because he kept and eye on someone that was acting suspicious.

Due diligence is not an immoral or criminal act.... Yet, the liberals her claim it is, rather than Trayvon's assault being the immoral criminal act that was the ACTUAL and DIRECT cause of his death. All ignored by the liberals.

[_beastie]

Uh. No. The words are right there. Insinuation is a bitch... Because, you know... You can just insinuate something, and then let people run with it.

I seriously am mystified by the people on this board. Boggled.

- Doc

You are 100% wrong, and schreech is 100% right. I am boggled by the fact that you have distorted my words to mean something entirely other than they meant.

I never said, or even slightly insinuated, that GZ wanted to rape TM. I said that TM may have been afraid that GZ was following him because he was a sexual predator who intended him harm. We know this idea came up because Rachel Jeantell said it.

Are you actually suggesting that it is completely crazy that a teenage boy being followed by some "creepy" man may think that man is a sexual predator???????

[_beastie]

by the way, the seeming inability of a segment of our population to even CONSIDER that TM was legitimately frightened of GZ, and his actions may have been affected by that fear, is one of the most disturbing elements of this discussion. It does seem to support the idea that some have floated, that some people respond to the idea of black men as monsters, and don't seem able to consider that sometimes black men are frightened by monsters, or people they imagine might be monsters.

[_Doctor Steuss]

I mean, I've been giving many scenario's and asking important questions like these that challenge liberal logic, and they are ignored. Will you answer them?

Sure, I’d be happy to share my perspective/opinion on these questions.
------------

Cut's in several places on the back of his head from his head being banged against the concrete, a huge swollen broken nose and other markings.

I don't know about you, but that's reasonable cause to me.

Fair enough. For me, knowing how easy it is to have a nose broken, and how easy it is to open the skin on just about any area of the skull, it wouldn't be enough for me to justify killing someone.

Further, at what point in your mind should a person allow themselves to be beat up before they are "justified" in your mind to defend themselves in the only way they can to stop it?

Honestly, I don't know, and I hope I never have to find out the answer to that question.

Further, one hit can cause permanent serious damage and even death, again, at what point should person allow themselves to to risk their lives?

I don't know. Personally, it would take a lot more than (what are in my perspective) superficial injuries to justify taking someone's life. I admitedly put a high value on human life though (to a faul, likely -- I have hyper-empathy).

What about Police? If police aren't expected to allow people to beat on them, why should a citizen who isn't even trained to deal with bad guys like police are for the most part?

I'm sorry, but I’m not an expert on police protocols. It is my understanding that most police departments have pretty strict standards that don’t allow lethal force to be used on an unarmed individual.

I'm also still waiting for an answer to the question about what if Trayvon actually had been a criminal and Zimmerman was able to stop a criminal act by keeping an eye on Trayvon and he was able to lead the cops to the guy? Zimmerman would have been considered a hero,

I guess it would depend on what kind of criminal he was, and the events of the apprehension. I think the title of “hero” is awarded a little too liberally in today’s society.

but in the liberal mind because in this case, because Zimmerman kept an eye, didn't obey dispatch recommendations, he's somehow "in the wrong" simply because the end result ended up in death?

I don’t know that I would consider the death of another human being as something that could be reduced into the category of “simply” within a scenario. But, like I said earlier, I do tend to place a (potentially flawed) high value on human life.

Oh, and that's another thing, how did Zimmerman kill an "innocent", when Trayvon committed a crime by assaulting Zimmerman, and ONLY THEN was when deadly force used to stop the assault? I've also seen this before with punks.... They don't like you eying them etc., and they will beat you up.

I can’t really speak to Travyon’s “innocence.” I guess one potential question is whether the crime of assault warrants capital punishment.

This and other questions are ignored, because they show the flaws of condemning a man, making him at fault, simply because he kept and eye on someone that was acting suspicious.

That’s one of the unfortunate things in this whole affair. He didn’t simply “keep an eye” on him. At some point, he got out of his car, and at some point he didn’t retreat. I will never know what motivated TM to do what he did. I will never know what was going through the mind of GZ when he did what he did. All I know is that I hope GZ’s borderline sociopathic lack of regret was on his lawyer’s advice, or is a defense mechanism in dealing with the trauma, and isn’t a reflection of his true feelings. I also hope that this can serve as a reminder that when you choose to assault someone, you never know what the consequences may be (like you said before, a lot of damage can be done with one punch by the right person).

Yes, if Trayvon hadn’t assaulted Zimmerman, he’d probably still be alive. If Zimmerman had stayed in his truck, Trayvon would probably still be alive. And, in my opinion, if Zimmerman hadn’t been armed, they’d both probably still be alive. At the end of the day though, I will never know what was going through either of their heads as the events happened that lead to a person’s death. I also don’t know what it was about this particular case that demanded as much media attention as it got.

The more I think about the case, the more I just end up with questions rather than answers (endless shades of gray, and too many “what ifs” for my brain to process). One thing that remains unchanged to me though is the belief that this was an unfortunate tragedy, where a combination of bad decisions made by two individuals resulted in someone unnecessarily losing their life.

Due diligence is not an immoral or criminal act.... Yet, the liberals her claim it is, rather than Trayvon's assault being the immoral criminal act that was the ACTUAL and DIRECT cause of his death. All ignored by the liberals.

I’m sorry, but I seem to have a different understanding of what “due diligence” means, so I’m having a bit of trouble understanding what you’re saying in this last bit.