Trump Needs to Step Aside

[Kishkumen]

It has nothing to do with Trump or my sensitivities.

OK! I just want to be sure. A similar situation might be those Biden supporters that would not even consider the allegations of sexual assault against him. The allegations turned out to be false, but some people considered it an impossibility from the beginning. I and others waited to find out what the evidence showed. If he had been guilty of such a crime, then he should be held accountable.

It has to do with adults being responsible. It has to do with people that respect each other holding each other accountable. It has to do with having the confidence that it's okay and worth calling out someone you like if/when you believe it's warranted. I would hope (if you respect me and think fondly of me) that you would have called me out if our positions were reversed.

To be clear - I would have said nothing to many people here if they posted that. I said something to you because it was you.

OK. I appreciate that. That said, I am seriously concerned about our incipient culture of elitism in which people are granted titles for life, not able to be criticized seriously because it would offend supporters, and the like. Some criticisms are serious, and that can't be helped. They are not out of bounds because they are upsetting. Some suspicions are serious but cannot be proven. Should we never give voice to them? I think one can give voice to them without accepting them as fact.

I know we cannot presently prove that Epstein helped Trump rape an underage girl. I know that. I also know that it would be inappropriate to use such a suspicion to argue that we ought not to vote for him. I also said that it was unnecessary in any case. He has enough proven marks against him to decide not to vote for him, and those are the criticisms we should focus on.

While we are at it, we can pause to think about the number of times Trump in an interview will invoke as support for his words something like "people are saying," or "some believe." I think this is much more concerning than my personal suspicions of criminal activities Trump has engaged in that we cannot prove. At least I value evidence and believe it should be the basis of our decisions. Trump doesn't seem to care about any of that, and yet he asks all of us to vote for him to become president of the United States, the most powerful nation in the world.

You didn't post "My guess is that Clinton raped a teenage girl" - If you would have, I would have most likely posted a similar reply

You didn't post "My guess is that PA raped a teenage girl" - If you would have, I would have most likely posted a similar reply

Raping a teenage girl is a really big accusation. I big thing. Yes, I have read the rumors and understand that it certainly may be true. What if it's not true? Given the accusation, caution is the wise move. Unless there is proof, I do not think it's appropriate to make such guesses.

If you don't want to call you out for these types of things in the future, just say the word and it will never happen again.

Please continue, by all means. I would, however, like to see greater consistency in your concern. If Trump invokes "some people" as his support for a contention, does that bother you?

[ceeboo]

That said, I am seriously concerned about our incipient culture of elitism in which people are granted titles for life, not able to be criticized seriously because it would offend supporters

I share your concern relating to the thrones that elites place themselves upon and others seem to validate.

As far as the Epstein thing goes (and his extremely controversial suicide. BS in my opinion), I suspect that there are a whole lot of very powerful people that were involved in some pretty bad stuff (raping young girls included) - We shall see, but my guess is that evidence and names will never see the light of day - These people are very powerful.

While we are at it, we can pause to think about the number of times Trump in an interview will invoke as support for his words something like "people are saying," or "some believe."

Yes, he constantly makes such suggestions. Constantly.

Please continue, by all means. I would, however, like to see greater consistency in your concern. If Trump invokes "some people" as his support for a contention

Let me try to be more transparent: I don't know Trump in the same way I know you (private PM's sharing details about each other's lives - One on one discussions about a variety of subjects that have spanned a decade or so - etc) I don't have a relationship with Trump - Trump doesn't have a relationship with me. So, you probably will not see the consistency between you and Trump that you're looking for.

does that bother you?

No, I understand who Trump is - I recognize that he has an enormous ego - He is the best at everything - His things are all the greatest that have ever existed - His term delivered the best of everything to everyone since Moses lead the Israelites out of Egypt. So, no, it doesn't bother me.

What does bother me? His ridiculous tweets - His name calling - His divisiveness.

[Kishkumen]

Let me try to be more transparent: I don't know Trump in the same way I know you (private PM's sharing details about each other's lives - One on one discussions about a variety of subjects that have spanned a decade or so - etc) I don't have a relationship with Trump - Trump doesn't have a relationship with me. So, you probably will not see the consistency between you and Trump that you're looking for.

Cool. I understand. Yes, I would not expect you to contact Trump to let him know he disappointed you. All you have in this case is your vote.

No, I understand who Trump is - I recognize that he has an enormous ego - He is the best at everything - His things are all the greatest that have ever existed - His term delivered the best of everything to everyone since Moses lead the Israelites out of Egypt. So, no, it doesn't bother me.

What does bother me? His ridiculous tweets - His name calling - His divisiveness.

His violations of the law?

No need to answer that. I thank you for your candid answer.

[ceeboo]

All you have in this case is your vote.

That's all any of us have.

No, I understand who Trump is - I recognize that he has an enormous ego - He is the best at everything - His things are all the greatest that have ever existed - His term delivered the best of everything to everyone since Moses lead the Israelites out of Egypt. So, no, it doesn't bother me.

What does bother me? His ridiculous tweets - His name calling - His divisiveness.

His violations of the law?

The guilty verdict - 34 counts about the falsifying business records? No, that doesn't bother me one bit.

I thank you for your candid answer.

Anytime.

[Binger]

The guilty verdict - 34 counts about the falsifying business records? No, that doesn't bother me one bit.

Winner. It doesn't bother anyone who wouldn't have been just as victimized, traumatized and threatened if Trump orderered a NY strip medium rare.

It's a nothingburger. The process was on trial too.

[Kishkumen]

The guilty verdict - 34 counts about the falsifying business records? No, that doesn't bother me one bit.

Being a scofflaw is no biggie then? Victimless crime in your opinion? White collar crime ain’t so bad? I mean, knowing that my candidate of choice routinely commits fraud *is* a problem for me. Trump University?

Ugh.

[Binger]

Being a scofflaw is no biggie then? Victimless crime in your opinion? White collar crime ain’t so bad? I mean, knowing that my candidate of choice routinely commits fraud *is* a problem for me. Trump University?

Ugh.

Scofflaw's are so bad.

A jury verdict from Bragg and whoever in Atlanta or DC in a shamass court ain't going to have the effect you are hoping for. That process failed, the outcome is whatever. Meh, let's see what the appeals do. Nobody gives a crap.

[Kishkumen]

Scofflaw's are so bad.

A jury verdict from Bragg and whoever in Atlanta or DC in a shamass court ain't going to have the effect you are hoping for. That process failed, the outcome is whatever. Meh, let's see what the appeals do. Nobody gives a crap.

Yes, you say shamass. You say meh. You say nobody gives a crap. The cynicism and bandwagoning in all of this is discouraging to say the least. I can't do much in response to this, and it looks to me (here is my opinion) that the mindset that arrives here is very much a "stick it to the man" "ends justifies the means" approach to the world. And, I have very little sympathy for that.

At the outset I have sympathy for it, because I think average Americans have been dicked around by politicians. That said, a lot of the dicking around has been, from my perspective, the result of big money yanking the system around. Big money and politicians working together to crap on the rest of us. And, I don't see Trump as the answer to that. Even when he looks like he is seeking to address problems, he throws in dumb crap like tariffs. Much of the time he seems to be making one group of wealthy elites really happy while making another group of wealthy elites really pissed.

Although I see us as screwed in one way or the other, I tend to fear the first group more. The ones who are billionaires and crazy radical Christians, for example. And, I would have to put up with all of Trump's chaotic, idiotic nonsense in order to side with these people who give me the heebie-geebies. I can't imagine championing this guy and crapping on the legal system to achieve that goal. It makes no sense to me.

I can see grounds for cynicism, but I am not ready to sacrifice everything and take a gamble on Trump because of it.

[Binger]

Although I see us as screwed in one way or the other, I tend to fear the first group more. The ones who are billionaires and crazy radical Christians, for example. And, I would have to put up with all of Trump's chaotic, idiotic nonsense in order to side with these people who give me the heebie-geebies. I can't imagine championing this guy and crapping on the legal system to achieve that goal. It makes no sense to me.

I can see grounds for cynicism, but I am not ready to sacrifice everything and take a gamble on Trump because of it.

Meh.

While I appreciate your nod to the foundation of populism, I shut down on the bigotry and lost interest in what you had to say. Sorry man. I know you put thought and time into your post, but I can't even remember now how it began or ended. Just.... yeah, he sorta described populism and he hates the hell out of Christians and probably will vote for the party that is like him. Meh.

Don't take it personally, Kish. I just blurr it all out on certain key words and conclusions.

[Kishkumen]

Meh.

While I appreciate your nod to the foundation of populism, I shut down on the bigotry and lost interest in what you had to say. Sorry man. I know you put thought and time into your post, but I can't even remember now how it began or ended. Just.... yeah, he sorta described populism and he hates the hell out of Christians and probably will vote for the party that is like him. Meh.

Don't take it personally, Kish. I just blurr it all out on certain key words and conclusions.

I don't feel I have to apologize for not approving of or respecting people who seek to transform our country out of all recognition so they are never tempted to have an abortion or look at pornography. I mean, there are lots of Christians who do not want to live in the Republic of Gilead. I am fine with those.