Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

[Gunnar]

That ‘fail’ is your argument.

Vaccines don’t ‘produce’ harsh variants, and they still lessen your chances of a severe reaction or death, if you contract an infection.

With your reasoning, I’m sure that you eschew seatbelt use, too, given that seatbelts ‘don’t stop other cars from hitting you’, and you can still become injured in an accident. But you, apparently, prefer to fly through the windshield.

It's also important to understand what "effective" means. If a COVID-19 is 42% effective, it does not mean that 58% of people who get vaccinated get infected with COVID. It means that whatever risk you had before you were vaccinated, being vaccinated reduces that risk of becoming infected. I'll take that vaccine any day. I don't know where Cultellus gets his 42% though. Does he cite a source or show his math?

It is indeed important to understand all the above to have any chance of ending the pandemic. That could hardly be more obvious.

[Gadianton]

As an aside, I have some unfortunate news. I mentioned a right-wing older friend in the gun thread who I kind of respect aside from politics. He's had some health problems and has been out of the hospital a couples times for overnight stints in the last few weeks. His wife is ill at home, and the kids and neighbors scrambling to figure out a solution. Fortunately, this guy is fully vaccinated. He got the first without a hitch, the second he hesitated on because a family member sent him a video from a right-wing quack doctor. But he did get it. I was able to research the doctor and refute the information without also letting him know that the doctor is a huge Trump supporter and stop-the-steal contributor.

Anyway, he's got a few kids, and they are very family oriented so good support. except for one of the middle sons who is closest geographically -- I've met him a couple times -- can't do anything because he's got viral pneumonia from Covid. I learned from a neighbor today that this son is a major right-winger and anti-vax and is not vaccinated. The whole family apparently has Covid now, although his case is the worst; he'd been hospitalized but now is out suffering through it at home. So this is the second time I'm aware of that my friend has been let down by his family and their unhinged politics. Two sick parents and the primary provider for your own family and you're out on the streets unvaccinated and giving science the middle finger like you're a major badass.

[Jersey Girl]

As an aside, I have some unfortunate news. I mentioned a right-wing older friend in the gun thread who I kind of respect aside from politics. He's had some health problems and has been out of the hospital a couples times for overnight stints in the last few weeks. His wife is ill at home, and the kids and neighbors scrambling to figure out a solution. Fortunately, this guy is fully vaccinated. He got the first without a hitch, the second he hesitated on because a family member sent him a video from a right-wing quack doctor. But he did get it. I was able to research the doctor and refute the information without also letting him know that the doctor is a huge Trump supporter and stop-the-steal contributor.

Anyway, he's got a few kids, and they are very family oriented so good support. except for one of the middle sons who is closest geographically -- I've met him a couple times -- can't do anything because he's got viral pneumonia from Covid. I learned from a neighbor today that this son is a major right-winger and anti-vax and is not vaccinated. The whole family apparently has Covid now, although his case is the worst; he'd been hospitalized but now is out suffering through it at home. So this is the second time I'm aware of that my friend has been let down by his family and their unhinged politics. Two sick parents and the primary provider for your own family and you're out on the streets unvaccinated and giving science the middle finger like you're a major badass.

That is horrific. Covid will unfortunately clear up any confusion about just who the badass really is.

Our friend whose wife passed after a 5 week hospitalization, still refuses to grant her death bed expressed desire that he be vaccinated. He did ultimately test positive for Covid antibodies. But still...

I can't tell if he's sincerely trying to protect his life or end it.

[Res Ipsa]

As an aside, I have some unfortunate news. I mentioned a right-wing older friend in the gun thread who I kind of respect aside from politics. He's had some health problems and has been out of the hospital a couples times for overnight stints in the last few weeks. His wife is ill at home, and the kids and neighbors scrambling to figure out a solution. Fortunately, this guy is fully vaccinated. He got the first without a hitch, the second he hesitated on because a family member sent him a video from a right-wing quack doctor. But he did get it. I was able to research the doctor and refute the information without also letting him know that the doctor is a huge Trump supporter and stop-the-steal contributor.

Anyway, he's got a few kids, and they are very family oriented so good support. except for one of the middle sons who is closest geographically -- I've met him a couple times -- can't do anything because he's got viral pneumonia from Covid. I learned from a neighbor today that this son is a major right-winger and anti-vax and is not vaccinated. The whole family apparently has Covid now, although his case is the worst; he'd been hospitalized but now is out suffering through it at home. So this is the second time I'm aware of that my friend has been let down by his family and their unhinged politics. Two sick parents and the primary provider for your own family and you're out on the streets unvaccinated and giving science the middle finger like you're a major badass.

That is horrific. Covid will unfortunately clear up any confusion about just who the badass really is.

Our friend whose wife passed after a 5 week hospitalization, still refuses to grant her death bed expressed desire that he be vaccinated. He did ultimately test positive for Covid antibodies. But still...

I can't tell if he's sincerely trying to protect his life or end it.

Tragic all around.

[Jersey Girl]

It really is tragic. Personally, I blame Trump for setting the scene for all of this to happen.

[Res Ipsa]

It really is tragic. Personally, I blame Trump for setting the scene for all of this to happen.

There's lots of blame to go around. Republican congress critters knew who this guy was. They put party power over country when they decided to become syncophants rather than oppose his worst actions.

(contdowm to whataboutism commencing)

[Jersey Girl]

It really is tragic. Personally, I blame Trump for setting the scene for all of this to happen.

There's lots of blame to go around. Republican congress critters knew who this guy was. They put party power over country when they decided to become syncophants rather than oppose his worst actions.

(contdowm to whataboutism commencing)

I agree entirely.

[Gadianton]

Our friend whose wife passed after a 5 week hospitalization, still refuses to grant her death bed expressed desire that he be vaccinated

Yes, these are terrible situations.

[Jersey Girl]

Our friend whose wife passed after a 5 week hospitalization, still refuses to grant her death bed expressed desire that he be vaccinated

Yes, these are terrible situations.

Throughout the entire pandemic, up to and including this very day, I have been astonished by the number of people who are so horribly vulnerable to the influences of those who would mislead them for their own personal gain.

For the love of money is the root of all evil.

[Gadianton]

Before I speculate about vaccine effectiveness come October, a further note is in order on vaccine effectiveness today. If a person believes the article, even with an overemphasis on the Pfizer 42% July number for transmission (not hospitalizations etc), I'd have a few questions for those people in any recent nurses meetings at any local hospitals where it was said that it's 50-50 vaccinated / unvaccinated who are hospitalized or in ICU. If the study cited is valid, those numbers would be very unusual for any hospital.

That right-wing news article reminded me of the resources the QAnon guy in my neighborhood sent me to. A conspiracy documentary popular among his crowd began with a false claim about injecting mercury into children. It was one of those stock-footage documentaries, and one of the graphics had been taken from Alex Jones of Infowarz (who is a patriot of the same order as Sean Hannity, if not higher) and passed around in right-wing circles. The graphic actually took its data on the content of mercury found in vaccines (from back in the 70s; their claim is about Today) from a real document with a home at the CDC. It compared mercury levels in vaccines to what was authorized for drinking water to make it appear to be shocking. The document, of course, was arguing for the safety of the level of mercury exposure (just like this recent Covid study argued for the effectiveness of the vaccine). The thinking was that the mercury the average person consumes in food in 100 days is about equal to one vaccine. But, in the minds of the caliber of Sean Hannity and Alex Jones, one piece of information from a real resource was seized upon, isolated, and exploited (45 years after the fact in this case).

I'm left to wonder why these right-wingers who are so sure mainstream science is lying to them have these rare moments of complete trust: the 42% July Pfizer stat must be true; the Mercury level in a vaccine is 25 mcg. why do they believe these isolated facts but nothing else in the studies? Why not believe, for instance, that Mercury levels are really 250 mcg and the government has been lying about it the whole time? Why not believe Pfizer is 10% effective (for July) and the researchers exaggerated by 32% to make the situation look more reasonable? It seems like a real problem to me for a right-winger to insist on the absolute validity of a piece of data from a mainstream science publication but then totally disregard the rest of the data from the same publication. It seems like it would be better worth their time to just manufacture whatever they want, as they often do in many other situations.