Trump's Beautiful Wall

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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Get this straight. I don't give a rock solid damn what he has/has not repented of or if he's ashamed of anything he's said or done in his whole entire stinking life.


Well I do care, and if you don't like it, well then you just found something I really don't care about.

Jersey Girl wrote: I'm not talking about personal attacks. Personally attack him 'til your fingers fall off.


It isn't a personal attack unless it is false. How is it a personal attack to point out what he's said on matters of race?

Jersey Girl wrote:I'm talking about bad form and what is/is not acceptable to be transferred to this board from elsewhere, based on what the history of policy has been about that here, and how it matters.


Like you said, some of this stuff USED to be against the board rules. It isn't anymore, so if you don't like it, too bad.
_EAllusion
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Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _EAllusion »

subgenius wrote:Again, back up your claim for 2013...otherwise admit you just made it up without having any knowledge....(which is more believable).
Or keep posting sidesteps so as to fully cement your postion as Supreme Commander of all thing presupposition.


My evidence of that claim is what you refer to in your own post that you cut and pasted. Do you even know what you are arguing?
_ajax18
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Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _ajax18 »

Meanwhile the world is flooded with actual academic studies that demonstrate that immigration, illegal or otherwise, either provided a net gain or its a wash. Only in rare instances with a certain demographic does it in any way provide a slight negative.


It amazes me how certain you are of the accuracy in monitoring the costs of a hidden population fuctioning with the use of false social security numbers. But who can argue with what Kevin feels in his heart.

So we arrest 60,000. I agree, good job. But imagine if we only had to arrest half that number because of the deterrent of the wall. Once an illegal immigrant sets foot on American soil, we've already lost the economic war. Her children from this point on are citizens, entitled to free public education, free healthcare, bussing each day from Mexico, medicaid, and medicare when they qualify, free public attorneys and expensive court proceedings that result in a little more than a return to the status quo.


But anyone who dares to point out basic common sense on the issue must have his reputation, life, and hopefully career destroyed. That's the state of my native country right now. I don't fault DJT for failure on this issue. It was a long shot, almost like the battle of Chancellorsville. Ultimately who can really stop people like Kevin from opening the gates or EAllusion from opening our savings accounts?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_EAllusion
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Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _EAllusion »

ajax18 wrote:It amazes me how certain you are of the accuracy in monitoring the costs of a hidden population fuctioning with the use of false social security numbers. But who can argue with what Kevin feels in his heart.


Lol. This is a pretty clear tell that you haven't even attempted to read studies linked to you. If it comes to a conclusion you don't like, you dismiss it.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

EAllusion wrote:
ajax18 wrote:It amazes me how certain you are of the accuracy in monitoring the costs of a hidden population fuctioning with the use of false social security numbers. But who can argue with what Kevin feels in his heart.


Lol. This is a pretty clear tell that you haven't even attempted to read studies linked to you. If it comes to a conclusion you don't like, you dismiss it.


It's a pattern with Republicans and Republican voters. They don't actually read crap. They'll link each other to tidy little talking point vids or articles, but they generally don't read. Trump doesn't read. Subs doesn't read. Ajax sure as “F” isn't reading.

It's an exercise in futility to reason with Conservatives.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Chap
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Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _Chap »

EAllusion wrote:
subgenius wrote:Again, back up your claim for 2013...otherwise admit you just made it up without having any knowledge....(which is more believable).
Or keep posting sidesteps so as to fully cement your postion as Supreme Commander of all thing presupposition.


My evidence of that claim is what you refer to in your own post that you cut and pasted. Do you even know what you are arguing?



In the Washington Post today, Jim DeMint and Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation invoke the free-market pantheon in arguing their anti-immigration stance: “The economist Milton Friedman warned that the United States cannot have open borders and an extensive welfare state.”

They’re halfway right about that. What Friedman actually said was that immigration is “a good thing for the United States…so long as it’s illegal.” He meant that open immigration is highly beneficial to the economy, provided those productive but inexpensive laborers do not have access to welfare. Friedman later wrote that, “There is no doubt that free and open immigration is the right policy in a libertarian state.” Friedman’s problem was with the welfare state, not immigration. His remarks are fundamentally at odds with the position Heritage is trying to argue.

It’s not the first time that I’ve questioned the free-market credentials of my friends at Heritage lately, and that’s making me sad.

On Monday, Heritage released a new study entitled “The Fiscal Cost of unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer” by Robert Rector and Jason Richwine, PhD. I criticized an earlier version of this report in 2007, arguing that their methodology was so flawed that one cannot take their report’s conclusions seriously. Unfortunately, their updated version differs little from their earlier one.

I’m joined in this view by a host of prominent free-marketeers. Jim Pethokoukis at AEI, Doug Holtz-Eakin at American Action Forum, Tim Kane at the Hudson Institute, and others have all denounced the fundamentals of the Heritage report.

The new Heritage report is still depressingly static, leading to a massive underestimation of the economic benefits of immigration and diminishing estimated tax revenue. It explicitly refuses to consider the GDP growth and economic productivity gains from immigration reform—factors that increase native-born American incomes. An overlooked flaw is that the study doesn’t even score the specific immigration reform proposal in the Senate. Its flawed methodology and lack of relevancy to the current immigration reform proposal relegate this study to irrelevancy.

Even worse, the Heritage study recommends a “solution” to the fiscal problems it supposedly finds. It suggests:

Because the majority of unlawful immigrants come to the U.S. for jobs, serious enforcement of the ban on hiring unlawful labor would substan­tially reduce the employment of unlawful aliens and encourage many to leave the U.S. Reducing the number of unlawful immigrants in the nation and limiting the future flow of unlawful immigrants would also reduce future costs to the taxpayer.


Professor Raul Hinojosa-Ojeda of UCLA wrote a paper for Cato last year where he employed a dynamic model called the GMig2 to study comprehensive immigration reform’s impact on the U.S. economy. He found that immigration reform would increase U.S. GDP by $1.5 trillion in the ten years after enactment.

Professor Hinojosa-Ojeda then ran a simulation examining the economic impact of the policy favored by Heritage: the removal or exit of all unauthorized immigrants. The economic result would be a $2.6 trillion decrease in estimated GDP growth over the next decade. That confirms the common-sense observation that removing workers, consumers, investors, and entrepreneurs from America’s economy will make us poorer.

Would decreasing economic growth by $2.6 trillion over the next ten years have a negative impact on the fiscal condition of the U.S.? You betcha.

Do the authors consider the fiscal impact of their preferred immigration policy? Nope.

For those of us who “grew up” on the fine policy analysis long produced by Heritage, the immigration report is a supreme disappointment. No one has done more than Heritage to promote the importance of dynamic scoring, which is critical to understanding the true effects of government activity on the marketplace. For that organization to have seemingly abandoned its core principles for this important debate is a stinging blow to those of us who crave an honest, data-driven debate on the fiscal merits of policy.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

So, the question that needs to be answered for someone like Ajax (who won't read the article you just posted) is how much will be offset by that $2.6T in the form of reduced welfare and related expenses of illegal immigration, and how much of that money will be generated by the native American?

In other words, if he does by chance skim the article you just posted, his reaction is that $2.6T will be produced by Americans making a good wage and less money spent on all things related to illegals sucking up resources.

And even if you make a compelling argument about the benefits of illegal immigration, he'll just fall back into ethnocentrism as evidenced by his earlier reference to the American Civil War and some brilliant tactic pulled off by General Lee that's supposed to, I dunno, make a subtle point about something about something White people something.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_EAllusion
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _EAllusion »

I like that Ajax18 says that I'm interested in empty out people's bank accounts because I believe the academic consensus on the effects of immigration. He doesn't even allow for the benevolent motive of being tricked by evil leftists for finding what is the standard view and arguments for it persuasive. No, I'm part of the leftist conspiracy who is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the public, only being stood up to by a brave few like Ajax who can see through this elaborate leftist ruse (perpetrated by hard right think tanks like CATO as well) using the powers of his intuition. I just want to see the world burn.
_ajax18
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Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _ajax18 »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:So, the question that needs to be answered for someone like Ajax (who won't read the article you just posted) is how much will be offset by that $2.6T in the form of reduced welfare and related expenses of illegal immigration, and how much of that money will be generated by the native American?


Doc, saying the wall is too expensive is a joke. We could fund it ourselves if the Republican congress would allow it.

https://www.fundthewall.com/donations/f ... er-wall-5/

Kevin Graham and EAllusion wouldn't want the wall if it were free and cut the need for US border patrol and legal manpower by 80%. They want more illegal immigration and so does the establishment wing of the Republican party. It has always lined their pockets at the expense of working class taxpaying native born Americans who just don't have the capital to stop them.
Last edited by ICCrawler - ICjobs on Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Trump's Beautiful Wall

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Ajax,

I see you can't answer the question. No surprise. You've never been one to apply any sort of situational awareness to a thread's context.

-Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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