MissTish wrote:Dershowitz is now making this argument:
"If a president does something which he believes will help him get elected in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment."
He could have just gone with "L'état, c'est moi", but the rubes he's playing to -including Trump- wouldn't get the reference
I am flabbergasted that any supposedly reputable attorney would seriously make such an outrageous argument. If Trump is acquitted based on this argument, it sets a precedent for him and any succeeding President to set himself up as an absolute tyrant, immune from any kind of restraint or oversight by Congress or any other entity.
It is an odd defense since most presidential candidates, dare I say all presidential candidates, profess to believe that it is in the public interest to elect them. So, by this argument, a president who is up for re-election can justify any behavior by arguing he was just trying to get re-elected. So, for example, breaking into the campaign headquarters of a political opponent would not be an impeachable offense. You can only impeach a president who is in their second term and not up for re-election. But even then, they could argue it is in the public's best interest to allow them to run for a third term.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
DarkHelmet wrote:It is an odd defense since most presidential candidates, dare I say all presidential candidates, profess to believe that it is in the public interest to elect them. So, by this argument, a president who is up for re-election can justify any behavior by arguing he was just trying to get re-elected. So, for example, breaking into the campaign headquarters of a political opponent would not be an impeachable offense. You can only impeach a president who is in their second term and not up for re-election. But even then, they could argue it is in the public's best interest to allow them to run for a third term.
The mere fact they seem to be favorably considering the validity of that argument just shows how terrified they are of Retribution from Trump or his sycophantic base for failure to do so.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
If nobody knows who the whistleblower is then Rand Paul just asked about two individuals in the NSC who under a prima facie lens were discussing taking down the president. Asking the House managers if they were aware of that seems to not be a problem, in fact relevant.
Now, if one of those individuals happens to be the whistleblower then Rand Paul has exposed Schiff for lying about not knowing who the whistleblower is, because the name itself had to be given to the chief justice to deny the question.
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
Meanwhile, back here in the real world, having your question(s) rejected by the CJSCOTUS and then you running to Twitter in a fit to reveal the name of the whistleblower has what kind of a effect on future government employees of conscience? It's weird to me how people like Mikwut delight in this sort of thing.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
There is a balancing that is at issue. Not just a principle of keeping his name public.
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
My god, Mikwut, do you put on your MAGA hat when posting here? We had a US Senator defy the Chief Justice in a snit, running to Twitter to out the whistleblower. You and other GOPhers can play word games with this "brilliant" move, but for “F”'s sake think about what effect this has on the state and any employees that'll want to protection under the Whistleblower Act in the future. “F” it's frustrating talking to people who are so goddamn myopic.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Again I don't take any umbrage in these discussions. It is difficult to discuss a topic if you have a belief that is like a prophet has said it and that is just that. When did this stop being a discussion board?
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
Again I don't take any umbrage in these discussions. It is difficult to discuss a topic if you have a belief that is like a prophet has said it and that is just that. When did this stop being a discussion board?
mikwut
I was unaware this wasn't? Weird conclusion, but ok.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Why is the whistleblower so sacrosanct balanced against confronting ones accuser found in the constitution?
Look forward to the discussion.
mikwut
All communication relies, to a noticeable extent on evoking knowledge that we cannot tell, all our knowledge of mental processes, like feelings or conscious intellectual activities, is based on a knowledge which we cannot tell. -Michael Polanyi
"Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?" Mark 4:40
Why is the whistleblower so sacrosanct balanced against confronting ones accuser found in the constitution?
Look forward to the discussion.
mikwut
1) Is Trump going to take the stand?
2) Whistleblower Act exists for a reason?
I mean, if we don’t want to afford a whistleblower anonymity then outing a variety of bad practices and corruption will be harder to wrangle.
3) Is a Senator defying a CJ’s decision to score a party hit through social media good for our government?
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.