Sam Harris wrote:I have to agree with the statement about not blaming God for cancer when you don't believe in God, but I've seen too many atheists, remember, those people who don't believe in God, make statements to the effect of, "well, why didn't God do this?". Um, newsflash, you don't believe in God...so the question is moot.
Why is it a moot question? It's perfectly fine for Christians to profess their belief and question the beliefs of atheists with "well god DOESN'T exist how come...", but it's wrong if atheist do the same because they don't believe in god? Explain to me how that works, guy.
Sam Harris wrote:But I have to stop and think about what complete and utter jackasses fundamentalist atheists are, just like fundamentalist Christians. Both are so SURE their views are right, and they have little time, tolerance, or respect for differing opinioins.
This is really hilarious as all the "examples" of a "fundamentalist atheist" all involve the atheist making a rational, secular statement and then following it with a statement that would indicate they actually believe in god, which would make them not an atheist at all.
Also, can you establish what the fundamentals of atheism are so we can have an idea of what exactly a "fundamentalist atheist" is?
Sam Harris wrote:I thought that the parodies on the actual site I linked were funny. And a few of them make valid points about the ridiculous nature of rabid atheism, this belief that there is no God because things don't go the way you want them to.
To bad they go about making those points in irrational, illogical, and quite frankly dishonest ways.
Sam Harris wrote:But I also separate God from RELIGION....something many fundie athiests cannot do, but their beliefs are in a way a religion.
Ok, how does that work? What is Christianity without god? Separating god from your religion would essentially render you a Sunday social club, as without God included in the deal then the entire belief structure has not reason for being. Seriously, don't believe me? Try reciting the Lord's Prayer without mentioning the Lord.
Sam Harris wrote:They worship gods like Harris and Dawkins, and swear up and down that anyone who doesn't is already in a hell of their own making.
Can you name some people that actually deify Dr. Dawkins or Mr. Harris? I've read books written by both men, and far from worshiping them in anyway, I find that I agree with quite a few of their arguments and still remain critical of those arguments that I don't agree with.
That right there is to me the biggest difference between the rational secular mind and the irrational religious mind. I can accept criticism of the major works of my philosophy because I can find things to be critical of in them myself. The religious mind can't really do the same with their scriptures without undermining their entire system of belief.
Sam Harris wrote:Some of my favorite quotes from that website (and when Kemp graduates from high school, he can feel free to comment on the quality of someone else's website...until then stick to myspace, they lay it all out for you, hon):
Watch closely as I destroy the follow idiotic statements, folks...
Although you've memorized a half a dozen proofs that He doesn't exist, you still think you're God's gift to the ignorant masses.
This one is contradictory, as it starts with an "atheist" that has proofs that god doesn't exit and then claims that the same atheist thinks he is "god's gift", indicating that the "atheist" used in the statement really does believe in god. Which would make them, you know, NOT an atheist.
You consistently deny the existence of God because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced God as a reality in their lives.
Denying the existence of something for which there is not actual evidence for is rational. Dismissing the claims of people who say they have seen something for which there is no evidence for is also rational. By this statement's logic, since I deny that Big Foot exists and deny the claims of people who say that Big Foot does exist, I am wrong for asking them to provide evidence of Big Foot.
You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense".
Wow, right here we've got ourselves a real live appeal to popularity fallacy. Because the mob is always right, amirite? I mean, the majority has never been wrong about things like the world being flat, the universe being geocentric, or that black people are that color because they are descended from some guy mentioned in the Bible that killed his brother. All of those are examples of things that the majority of religious people of one denomination or another of Christian has held to be true until someone beat them about the head with evidence to the point where they could no longer deny that their previous views were false.
Like the old saying goes, common sense isn't common.
You're a spoiled fifteen year old boy who lives in the suburbs and you go into a chat room to declare that, "I know there is no God because no loving God would allow anyone to suffer as much as I...hold on. My cell phone's ringing."
Ad hominem much? So the atheist in this example is wrong because he's:
A. 15 years old.
B. lives in the suburbs.
C. stopped chatting long enough to answer their phone.
D. all of the above.
None of which actually addresses the premise that god doesn't exist, isn't loving if he does exist, and does allow people to suffer if he does exist, and instead attacks the person. And people wonder why I make fun of religious folk with the same irrational mindset as you appear to have.
You contend that no war in history has ever been created by non-belief. Yet, when you are told that 176 million people lost their lives in wars during the last century, created by non-believers like Stalin, Lenin, Mao and Hitler, to name only a few, you reply that those wars fought were fought in the name of ideology and not 'atheism' as atheists "…don't fly planes into buildings or start wars."
Fun Facts!
Stalin was the leader of a nation that was attacked by another during the Second World War! So saying he created a war is pretty damned stupid, ain't it.
Adolf Hitler was a devout Lutheran his entire life, even citing Martin Luther as being a great warrior, a true statesmen, and a great reformer, alongside Wagner and Frederick the Great in his book Mein Kampf. In fact, Christian influence can be seen through out the history of the national Socialist Party in everything from Lutheran influences on Nazi politics to the motto "Got mit uns" on the belt buckles of the Wehrmacht.
Chairman Mao waged war against the Imperial Japanese who has invaded his country, so saying he started that war is pretty damned stupid too.
The only war Vladimir Lenin started played a part in starting was influencing the ideology of the Bolshevik movement that forced the abdication of Tsar Nicholas II, which had nothign to do with religious views at all.
How ever, if you want to tally up the body count of just Christianity since it's inception, I think you'll find the body count to be quite a bit higher then the 176 million you claim were killed by warfare in the 20th Century. If we add in other religions the numbers just go up from there. In any case, claiming that atheism or even secularism started wars is just as irrational as saying that religion caused all wars.
Sam Harris wrote:Fundy atheists go on and on about how horrible all theists are, but they are just as bigoted as the people they condemn. That's my ultimate point. Set an example instead of running your mouths.
I could say the same to most any Christian I've ever met that keeps trying to tell me about their wonderful religion, yet fails utterly to provide an example by living up to the tenant of their faith.
TL;DR version: You're obviously butthurt about there being anyone that questions your faith. Get used to it learn to hold a rational dialogue with them instead of pulling out irrational ad hominems and appeals to popularity. Seriously, WTF is a "fundimental atheist" anyways?