Obama on Taxes

[_Analytics]

So let’s be clear. The rich in America have little to complain about. Between 1971 and 2001, while the median wage and salary income of the average worker showed literally no gain, the income of the top hundredth of a percent went up almost 500 percent. The distribution of wealth is even more skewed, and levels of inequality are now higher than at any time since the Gilded Age. These trends were already at work throughout the nineties. Clinton’s tax policies simply slowed them down a bit. Bush’s tax cuts made them worse.

I point out these facts not—as Republican talking points would have it—to stir up class envy. I admire many Americans of great wealth and don’t begrudge their success in the least. I know that many if not most have earned it through hard work, building businesses and creating jobs and providing value to their customers. I simply believe that those of us who have benefited most from this new economy can best afford to shoulder the obligation of ensuring every American child has a chance for that same success. And perhaps I possess a certain Midwestern sensibility that I inherited from my mother and her parents, a sensibility that Warren Buffett seems to share: that at certain point one has enough, that you can derive as much pleasure from a Picasso hanging in a museum as from on that’s hanging in your den, that you can get an awfully good mean in a restaurant for less than twenty dollars, and that once your drapes cost more than the average American’s yearly salary, then you can afford to pay a bit more in taxes.

If there's class warefare going on in America, then my class is winning.

[_Jason Bourne]

Still, as noted on other threads, all classes have received tax cuts under Bush's tax law changes. All rates have dropped, a new 10% bracket was added, down 5 % from the prior lowest rate, a child credit of $1000 per child was put in place, a savers credit for low income earners was put in place and the earned income credit was expanded and also single parents were able to use it. There have been more tax cuts for lower and middle class earners then there was during the Clinton administration. Clinton simply raised taxes on the wealthy. Oh he also put in provisions that caused social security for anyone who had other non SS income over $32,000.

Now, I am sure the rich have benefited more under Bush dollar for dollar because they pay more. Also, if someone making over 300k a year was in the 39% bracket a 5% cut put more dollars in their pocket then someone making 50k who got a 5% cut also. But there have been cuts across the board and guess what? The middle class got bigger tax cuts dollar for dollar, about $2500 per year for the average income family, then what Obama proposes-about $500 to $1000.

It is simply a lie to say that the low income and middle income Americans did not get tax cuts under Bush.

[_dartagnan]

The predicament as I see it is that Obama blames Bush for the current economic crisis.

by the way, do you agree with this Analytics?

Obama insists it was the "philosophy" of giving to the rich, which is really an idiotic comment that misleads voters, because you're not giving money to the rich by simply allowing them to keep more of what they earn. They already have it. It would be more accurate to say Bush is guilty of not stealing as much money from the rich as Obama plans to do.

Obama and his ilk like to say "give billions to the rich" because it creates this image that Republicans are being paid off by billionaires, hence, they return the favor by giving them tax cuts. It is as if they are completely oblivious to the philosophy of fiscal conservatism, the reason why republicans give tax cuts to businesses - because they genuinely believe it will lead to more jobs. There is a saying that businesses don't pay business taces anyway. The consumer pays them. Increasing taxes on Big Oil only means Big Oil will have to increase their prices to ensure a gross profit margin that makes it worth staying in business.

Further, the predicament is that Obama fails to outline exactly what it is Bush did that made the current crisis. What "economic policies" did Bush implement that was so devastating?

Bush's main success was his tax cuts, and here we see Obama wanting do add to those cuts. So how can he complain that Bush's tax cuts created the mess we're in, while at the same time offering to increase those cuts? He's talking out of both sides of his arse.

I just see him pretending, and saying only as much as he needs to in order to fool the average American.

[_Analytics]

Still, as noted on other threads, all classes have received tax cuts under Bush's tax law changes. All rates have dropped, a new 10% bracket was added, down 5 % from the prior lowest rate, a child credit of $1000 per child was put in place, a savers credit for low income earners was put in place and the earned income credit was expanded and also single parents were able to use it. There have been more tax cuts for lower and middle class earners then there was during the Clinton administration. Clinton simply raised taxes on the wealthy. Oh he also put in provisions that caused social security for anyone who had other non SS income over $32,000.

Now, I am sure the rich have benefited more under Bush dollar for dollar because they pay more. Also, if someone making over 300k a year was in the 39% bracket a 5% cut put more dollars in their pocket then someone making 50k who got a 5% cut also. But there have been cuts across the board and guess what? The middle class got bigger tax cuts dollar for dollar, about $2500 per year for the average income family, then what Obama proposes-about $500 to $1000.

It is simply a lie to say that the low income and middle income Americans did not get tax cuts under Bush.

All I can say is that once elected, I hope Obama is as responsible as Clinton was.

[_Analytics]

The predicament as I see it is that Obama blames Bush for the current economic crisis.

You need to figure out how to tell the difference between campaign rhetoric and actual beliefs.

Anyway, this thread is about taxes, how the economic pie is split between the middle class and the rich who together create the actual wealth, and class envy—not the current economic crisis. Obama states that the discrepancy has been getting worse since 1971.

by the way, do you agree with this Analytics?

I agree with what Obama and Buffet said in the quotes provided.

Obama insists it was the "philosophy" of giving to the rich, which is really an idiotic comment that misleads voters, because you're not giving money to the rich by simply allowing them to keep more of what they earn.

Can we play a game here? Rather than telling me what Obama insists, just provide an in-context quote.

Bush's main success was his tax cuts...

Look at the whole picture. Do you really think going from a surplus to the largest deficits in American history is a success?

[_Analytics]

Still, as noted on other threads, all classes have received tax cuts under Bush's tax law changes. All rates have dropped, a new 10% bracket was added, down 5 % from the prior lowest rate, a child credit of $1000 per child was put in place...

On behalf of tax payers everywhere, I thank president Bush for these tax cuts. And I especially extend my warmest thanks to our children and grandchildren who will be paying off the debt this created for their entire tax-paying lives.

[_Analytics]

By the way dart, what do you think of what Obama said in the quote I provided?

Do agree that the rich in America have little to complain about since their income has gone up 500% over the last 30 years?

Do you admire many Americans of great wealth and don’t begrudge their success in the least?

Do you believe that many if not most have earned it through hard work, building businesses and creating jobs and providing value to their customers?

Do you believe that those of us who have benefited most from this new economy can best afford to shoulder the obligation of ensuring every American child has a chance for that same success?

Do you believe that you can derive as much pleasure from a Picasso hanging in a museum as from on that’s hanging in your den?

Do you believe that you can get an awfully good mean in a restaurant for less than twenty dollars?

Do you believe that once your drapes cost more than the average American’s yearly salary, then you can afford to pay a bit more in taxes?

[_Jason Bourne]

Still, as noted on other threads, all classes have received tax cuts under Bush's tax law changes. All rates have dropped, a new 10% bracket was added, down 5 % from the prior lowest rate, a child credit of $1000 per child was put in place, a savers credit for low income earners was put in place and the earned income credit was expanded and also single parents were able to use it. There have been more tax cuts for lower and middle class earners then there was during the Clinton administration. Clinton simply raised taxes on the wealthy. Oh he also put in provisions that caused social security for anyone who had other non SS income over $32,000.

Now, I am sure the rich have benefited more under Bush dollar for dollar because they pay more. Also, if someone making over 300k a year was in the 39% bracket a 5% cut put more dollars in their pocket then someone making 50k who got a 5% cut also. But there have been cuts across the board and guess what? The middle class got bigger tax cuts dollar for dollar, about $2500 per year for the average income family, then what Obama proposes-about $500 to $1000.

It is simply a lie to say that the low income and middle income Americans did not get tax cuts under Bush.

All I can say is that once elected, I hope Obama is as responsible as Clinton was.

So you are ok if Obama does not give any tax cuts to middle and lower class income earners? That essentially is what Clinton did. No cuts for middle class and raised rates on upper.

I really don't think anything I am explaining to you is sinking in. It seemed that you might understand some of this and not be so ideological that you could not get to it. Guess I was wrong.

[_Jason Bourne]

On behalf of tax payers everywhere, I thank president Bush for these tax cuts. And I especially extend my warmest thanks to our children and grandchildren who will be paying off the debt this created for their entire tax-paying lives.

The thread is about tax cuts. I did not say they were good or bad just that it is a lie that Bush had not cut taxes for the middle and low class income people. So, now I have proved this point you change gears and slam him for doing something more than Clinton did and for what Obama wants to do. Yes you are an ideologue it seems.

[_Some Schmo]

Bush's main success was his tax cuts, and here we see Obama wanting do add to those cuts. So how can he complain that Bush's tax cuts created the mess we're in, while at the same time offering to increase those cuts? He's talking out of both sides of his arse.

Yeah, it might appear that way if you suffer from brain damage and can't keep more than one thought in your head at a time.

Obama can afford to cut taxes if he slashes the massive defense budget by ending the unnecessary US presence in Iraq. Of course, narrow minded republicans don't like to put those two thoughts in the same sentence, because it makes too much sense, and sense is not something rabid republicans really have.

Conservatives, my ass.