DiscussMormonism.com

Two weeks ago, the country's biggest left-wing political grouping, the Labor Party, which has responsibility for integration as a member of the coalition government led by the Christian Democrats, issued a position paper calling for the end of the failed model of Dutch "tolerance."

It came at the same time Nicolas Sarkozy was making a case in France for greater opportunities for minorities that also contained an admission that the French notion of equality "doesn't work anymore."

But there was a difference. If judged on the standard scale of caution in dealing with cultural clashes and Muslims' obligations to their new homes in Europe, the language of the Dutch position paper and Lilianne Ploumen, Labor's chairperson, was exceptional.

The paper said: "The mistake we can never repeat is stifling criticism of cultures and religions for reasons of tolerance."

bcspace wrote:The liberals were defeated in the last century. Why do we have to do this all over again? Liberals know nothing of history, it's implications, or lessons. Conservatives are too often found in a deep sleep, too late to defend this hard earned knowledge.

Are you kidding me? I think your definitions of liberal and conservative are skewed, considering the 20th century should be most noted for the defeat of conservative forms of government [first Monarchial Empires in WWI and Totalitarian forms of government both on the left [cold war] and right [WWII]] by liberal forms of government.

The whole story of modernity [whenever you want to mark the beginning of the Modern Era] has been that of a march towards more and more liberal forms of government and more and more liberal ideas within society as a whole.

bcspace wrote:

Are you kidding me? I think your definitions of liberal and conservative are skewed, considering the 20th century should be most noted for the defeat of conservative forms of government [first Monarchial Empires in WWI and Totalitarian forms of government both on the left [cold war] and right [WWII]] by liberal forms of government.

You prove my point. Regan, Thatcher, Bush II, the defeat of Socialism in Russia, Latin America, India, etc.

The whole story of modernity [whenever you want to mark the beginning of the Modern Era] has been that of a march towards more and more liberal forms of government and more and more liberal ideas within society as a whole.

The definition of liberal changed in the 20th century where Republicans were the liberals early on. Go back to the early part of that century and today's conservatives would be called liberals.

bcspace wrote:At least the Dutch have learned their lesson.....

You're thinking of liberal in terms of American liberalism. Liberalism on the grand scale covers most forms of Constitutional democracies where freedom is favored over order. The triumph of Liberal Democracy over Control govt types such as Fascism/Stalinism shows that liberalism triumphed in the 20th century.

bcspace wrote:At least the Dutch have learned their lesson.....

From the left, a call to end the current Dutch notion of tolerance

Two weeks ago, the country's biggest left-wing political grouping, the Labor Party, which has responsibility for integration as a member of the coalition government led by the Christian Democrats, issued a position paper calling for the end of the failed model of Dutch "tolerance."

It came at the same time Nicolas Sarkozy was making a case in France for greater opportunities for minorities that also contained an admission that the French notion of equality "doesn't work anymore."

But there was a difference. If judged on the standard scale of caution in dealing with cultural clashes and Muslims' obligations to their new homes in Europe, the language of the Dutch position paper and Lilianne Ploumen, Labor's chairperson, was exceptional.

The paper said: "The mistake we can never repeat is stifling criticism of cultures and religions for reasons of tolerance."

The liberals were defeated in the last century. Why do we have to do this all over again? Liberals know nothing of history, it's implications, or lessons. Conservatives are too often found in a deep sleep, too late to defend this hard earned knowledge.

bcspace wrote:Conservatives are too often found in a deep sleep, too late to defend this hard earned knowledge.

Is it really intolerance to keep a religious minority, that does not share your country's belief in Western Democratic ideals, from subverting centuries of your progress?