What is going on?

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_EAllusion
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What is going on?

Post by _EAllusion »

It is becoming quite clear that their is a rash of bigoted provocations, hate crimes, and outright murderous threats by hateful people being carried out in the wake of Trump's victory. While there have been hoaxes, there appears to be a very real wave of this stuff. The perpetrators seem emboldened by the fact that he won. And while they do not represent anywhere near a majority of Trump voters, they are a loud minority.

Paul Ryan condemned it today and insisted that Donald Trump agrees with him, but President elect Trump won't say a word about it. He's too busy having a twitter-fight over nuclear policy wherein he lies about his previous comments.

This is very bad. I can't fathom any presidential candidate going back my entire lifetime not stepping up and condemning this to bring some sanity. Clinton encouraging cooperation and an open mind in her concession speech is what normal politicians do. What Paul Ryan just said is what normal politicians do. Why can't Trump speak out on this? Is this stochastic terrorism? Too much pay-back loyalty to the wrong people? General obliviousness? I have no idea.
_Some Schmo
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _Some Schmo »

EAllusion wrote:Why can't Trump speak out on this?

I think the last 18 months made this no mystery at all.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

This is what I think is going on. I think it's a mistake to think that ethnocentric, bigoted, racist people are few in numbers. They've always been around and I think they simply went underground to wait for a time when they could emerge. I think they see Trump's comments about Mexicans and Muslims as their invitation to come out of the shadows.

And we're right back here again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZYRZpNc64

That song (which is either coincidentally or intentionally the title of your OP) was released as a reaction to the Vietnam War, but I always thought of it as also a social commentary on the race riots/civil rights movement of the late 60's that preceded it.

I think Trump's plate is fuller right now and he's under more pressure than he's ever experienced in his entire life. He's sucked into the vortex of transition and he's only got until Jan to come out the other end of the tunnel and emerge as President.

I think that the transition and the thought that Obama will handle this since it's going on still under his watch are the reasons he hasn't comment yet.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_EAllusion
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _EAllusion »

This is what I think is going on. I think it's a mistake to think that ethnocentric, bigoted, racist people are few in numbers. They've always been around and I think they simply went underground to wait for a time when they could emerge. I think they see Trump's comments about Mexicans and Muslims as their invitation to come out of the shadows.


No, that's clear. Maybe some fence-sitters were activated by this campaign. What I want to know is with this wave happening, it's the sort of thing the person who is being credited both implicitly and explicitly by the people perpetrating it probably should condemn, no? That's a valuable message to send that will at a minimum save people some heartache. So that leaves you with the fact that either he's in favor of it or isn't and doesn't care. Each option should make you wonder why that is so if that is the case. The answers range from one extreme of wanting to exploit chaos to instill the fear necessary to grab power or wanting to see critics murdered to the other of being oblivious to why leaders try to speak out about these things quickly.

What Paul Ryan did is normal. Trump's silence is not.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

EAllusion wrote:
This is what I think is going on. I think it's a mistake to think that ethnocentric, bigoted, racist people are few in numbers. They've always been around and I think they simply went underground to wait for a time when they could emerge. I think they see Trump's comments about Mexicans and Muslims as their invitation to come out of the shadows.


No, that's clear. Maybe some fence-sitters were activated by this campaign. What I want to know is with this wave happening, it's the sort of thing the person who is being credited both implicitly and explicitly by the people perpetrating it probably should condemn, no? That's a valuable message to send that will at a minimum save people some heartache. So that leaves you with the fact that either he's in favor of it or isn't and doesn't care. Each option should make you wonder why that is so if that is the case. The answers range from one extreme of wanting to exploit chaos to instill the fear necessary to grab power or wanting to see critics murdered to the other of being oblivious to why leaders try to speak out about these things quickly.

What Paul Ryan did is normal. Trump's silence is not.


I've never been president elect so I don't know if he's monitoring everything that's happening (he probably is since he reportedly only sleeps 3-4 hours a day) or he's too busy to do anything or he's intentionally letting it build up unaddressed.

What you said about exploiting chaos to instill the fear necessary to grab power...boy are you right on the money with that.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_EAllusion
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _EAllusion »

It's one of the major news stories of the country. Trump's aware of it. The guy is having petty fights over the news on Twitter right now. Maybe he doesn't connect it to his actions because he's too filled with defensiveness and ignorance to do that. Maybe his speechwriters haven't crafted the right way to condemn them without losing the racial-resentment voting bloc that is important to his success. Or maybe his 25 year record of praise of autocratic nations putting down dissent through terror makes him like this sort of thing.

I don't know if any of us know what is going on.
_Maxine Waters
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _Maxine Waters »

No, that's clear. Maybe some fence-sitters were activated by this campaign. What I want to know is with this wave happening, it's the sort of thing the person who is being credited both implicitly and explicitly by the people perpetrating it probably should condemn, no? That's a valuable message to send that will at a minimum save people some heartache. So that leaves you with the fact that either he's in favor of it or isn't and doesn't care. Each option should make you wonder why that is so if that is the case. The answers range from one extreme of wanting to exploit chaos to instill the fear necessary to grab power or wanting to see critics murdered to the other of being oblivious to why leaders try to speak out about these things quickly.


Why wouldn't you expect Muslim leaders to speak against 9/11/01 or any of the other numerous radical Islamic terrorist attacks? You seem perfectly fine with their silence in these situations.
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing ... uh, umm. ... Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.
_just me
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _just me »

Maxine Waters wrote:
No, that's clear. Maybe some fence-sitters were activated by this campaign. What I want to know is with this wave happening, it's the sort of thing the person who is being credited both implicitly and explicitly by the people perpetrating it probably should condemn, no? That's a valuable message to send that will at a minimum save people some heartache. So that leaves you with the fact that either he's in favor of it or isn't and doesn't care. Each option should make you wonder why that is so if that is the case. The answers range from one extreme of wanting to exploit chaos to instill the fear necessary to grab power or wanting to see critics murdered to the other of being oblivious to why leaders try to speak out about these things quickly.


Why wouldn't you expect Muslim leaders to speak against 9/11/01 or any of the other numerous radical Islamic terrorist attacks? You seem perfectly fine with their silence in these situations.


Muslims speak out against terrorist groups and actions all the damned time. Pay attention.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
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_Markk
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _Markk »

EAllusion wrote:It is becoming quite clear that their is a rash of bigoted provocations, hate crimes, and outright murderous threats by hateful people being carried out in the wake of Trump's victory. While there have been hoaxes, there appears to be a very real wave of this stuff. The perpetrators seem emboldened by the fact that he won. And while they do not represent anywhere near a majority of Trump voters, they are a loud minority.

Paul Ryan condemned it today and insisted that Donald Trump agrees with him, but President elect Trump won't say a word about it. He's too busy having a twitter-fight over nuclear policy wherein he lies about his previous comments.

This is very bad. I can't fathom any presidential candidate going back my entire lifetime not stepping up and condemning this to bring some sanity. Clinton encouraging cooperation and an open mind in her concession speech is what normal politicians do. What Paul Ryan just said is what normal politicians do. Why can't Trump speak out on this? Is this stochastic terrorism? Too much pay-back loyalty to the wrong people? General obliviousness? I have no idea.



What are these hate crimes and murderous threats? I see on TV violence from the left, burning flags and head of Trump...what am I missing in your thread?

Are you saying Trump is suppose to speak out against the violence against him, or is there hate crimes going on by Trump supporters?
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_EAllusion
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Re: What is going on?

Post by _EAllusion »

Maxine Waters wrote:Why wouldn't you expect Muslim leaders to speak against 9/11/01 or any of the other numerous radical Islamic terrorist attacks? You seem perfectly fine with their silence in these situations.


Muslims did speak out against 9/11 and other terrorist attacks. It happens all the time. You've asserted this so many times and every time people link to examples of them doing that, you just slink away.

Moreover, Muslims aren't collectively responsible for every action a Muslim takes. I no more expect Muslims to have to speak out against every act of Islamic terror than I expect every Christian to go out and condemn an abortion clinic bombing. Donald Trump is a single person who has people engaging in acts of bigotry and terror either explicitly or implicitly because of him personally. He has some ability to influence this by getting out in front and condemning it.
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