DiscussMormonism.com

When a troll shows up, the most common advice given is:
"Don't Feed the Trolls."

From a discussion of whether one should always follow this advice:

Yes, silence is a reaction, which [can be its own] problem with the feeding [the trolls] metaphor. Not only is [trolling a] behavior, but it is highly rewarding behavior to trolls.

The important thing to remember about trolls is their purpose. It isn’t to get attention for themselves per se. It is to control the conversation. Sure, some trolls show up out of the blue to say, “Derp, I’m an asshole”, and wait for the show to start, but that’s very rare.

The majority of internet trolls show up when something contentious is being discussed.... If nothing happens when they attack the writer, except that their targets get a little quieter, once again, they are only getting what they want.

...Unless we speak up and say, “This is not the behavior I want anywhere near me,” all the trolls get is reward for their behavior. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a discussion to be had about how to deal with trolls without sacrificing the conversation. It does, however, mean that it’s very much time to stop telling us to ignore the trolls.

https://the-orbit.net/almostdiamonds/20 ... d-science/

In my opinion, trolling has finally managed to silence two valued members of our community. Here are their final posts:

grindael, Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:23 pm, wrote:I didn't know where to post this, I hope that it is the right place, and I do so here because I don't want any threads started like "Where is grindael"? I am taking a break and I don't know if I'll be back. I don't want any drama, so that's all. Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest in my research and for your valuable insights that have helped me along the way.

viewtopic.php?p=1087056#p1087056

I have a question, Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:36 pm, wrote:

grindael wrote:He doesn't get it. We don't mix well because HE KEEPS ATTACKING ME AND MAKING SNIDE COMMENTS ABOUT MY MOTIVES, ETC.

...This person is simply incapable of owning what he does. It's always someone else's fault.... This will change nothing. I guarantee this is not over.

Prophet^

I’m done with the board till he’s dealt with.

Okay, let's talk turkey here. MG's conduct, specifically when he comes into grindael's threads and begins making personal remarks about him instead of addressing the actual topic, falls into the category of harassment. He's been doing this for years. He starts taking jabs at the poster (in this case, grindael), grindael and others will respond, he immediately responds by relinquishing personal responsibility for his part in the situation, persists in derailing or coopting threads, and more recently has taken up creating new threads in Terrestrial for the express purpose of crying wolf and assigning blame for the dust up not only to grindael, but to the entire board.

Universal Rule #4

Do not "derail" threads or otherwise insert commentary that has nothing to do with a thread's opening post.

Universal Rule #9

Do not make threats or take actions to cause another member to feel harassed or fearful for his or her safety "in real life." Please do not do this via e-mail or private message, either.

And now he's driving members away.

It's clear to me that MG needs to be put on mod queue so that the mod team can nip the derails in the bud.

What are we waiting for? The departure of more community members?

I posted this on grindael's thread, but as it provides some context for Jersey Girl's comment about how long this has been going on, I thought it should go here also:

I can't blame grindael for leaving, he has tolerated this abuse from mentalgymnast for a LONG time.

From the OP of a 2014 thread mentalgymnast started where he singled out grindael:

mentalgymnast wrote:A couple of days ago when I was out doing my run I was thinking about some of the things I read on this forum and most recently some of the stuff that grindael has written about his perceptions/recollections... It got me thinking about some generalizations as it relates to the "strawman argument"..., On another thread grindael has a lot to say, even in particulars.... that he has become "expert" on over the years. That's all fine and good. The problem, as I see it, is that as we use various sources to build our arguments and resultant conclusions we are in a sense building a strawman....

After he finally gets grindael to respond, he makes this passive-aggressive non-apology where he pretends his OP wasn't about grindael:

mentalgymnast wrote:I'm sorry if I've offended you and made light of the work that you've obviously put into arriving where you're at....
I'm simply saying the it seems to be human nature for folks to [cherry-pick information and create a strawman argument] and I would hazard a guess that you do the same thing.

And another non-apologetic passive-aggressive twist:

mentalgymnast wrote:OK. I get it. You're a bit upset that I brought your name up within the context of making the argument that both apologists and critics tend towards constructing/building an argument or position based upon collected evidence that is often not impartial...

This was in 2014. Mentalgymnast has been trolling grindael in exactly the same passive-aggressive manner, non-stop, AT LEAST since then. No wonder grindael is leaving. It is unconscionable that an adult would troll another person like this. For it to go on for years is just sickening.

Here's the thing. Doesn't this all fall into the category of Tobin Syndrome? If so, mod queue is what makes the most sense.

I've sung this song before (most likely out of tune) about other offending posters, but if no one responds to MG, he will stop posting.

He will soon feel as if he is just talking to himself and weary of it.

I'm not sure if I agree completely with the OP. I do think that trolls just need to feel as if they have an effect on the world. Any effect. No response, no effect. No effect, no reward.

Like Tobin, MG has committed multiple unpardonable sins. He needs to go.

Quasimodo wrote:I've sung this song before (most likely out of tune) about other offending posters, but if no one responds to MG, he will stop posting.

He will soon feel as if he is just talking to himself and weary of it.

I'm not sure if I agree completely with the OP. I do think that trolls just need to feel as if they have an effect on the world. Any effect. No response, no effect. No effect, no reward.

In general, I agree. I think it's rare, but the case where a troll ends up controlling the conversation by silencing another poster is also an effect. Unfortunately, that seems to be where we are. Grindael has not posted on a thread started by mentalgymnast since December of 2016, but mentalgymnast has shown no signs of slowing down his assaults on grindael's threads.

Quasimodo wrote:Like Tobin, MG has committed multiple unpardonable sins. He needs to go

Can't argue with that--or at least be on mod queue. I like Jersey Girl's suggestion.

I've been on a board break for a few months now, and I haven't gone back and read what I've missed. Has anyone reported MG to the mods before this or suggested that MG be placed in a queue?

Res Ipsa wrote:I've been on a board break for a few months now, and I haven't gone back and read what I've missed. Has anyone reported MG to the mods before this or suggested that MG be placed in a queue?

about a month ago mentalgymnast started reporting every single post he decided was a derailment, then his posts got reported until Dr. Shades got so overwhelmed that he declared a "mentalgymnast Jubilee," where mentalgymnast got a free pass on everything. Search "jubilee." others complied, mentalgymnast waited less than a day before he started trolling again.

I understand the logic, but it still burned that mentalgymnast was allowed to freely call people on the board "purveyors of sodomy and pornography" [NO I am NOT kidding, search the terms] in the Terrestrial forum.

And I don't know if you were here for this, but some months back, mentalgymnast, in the course of ONE evening, followed grindael onto seven or eight threads where grindael was announcing his new research and his upcoming presentation at the Whitmer Conference, and then trashed each thread with the basest of harassment. Here are a few of his actual comments about grindael's research:

"You're a loser, grindael. " and

"by the way, loser, we are already well aware that you don't believe in the Divine calling of Joseph Smith...so what's your point in preaching to the choir? You already know you're gonna just get high fives. So what's your point? Much ado about nothing, isn't it? " and

"Don't take the fact that I called him a 'loser' get in the way. Just calling it like it is. (Loser: a person or thing that loses or has lost something and/or is doomed to fail or disappoint)"

This is just the briefest description of his trolling, and yes, he's been reported. People have been commenting off and on about a mod queue solution ever since dr. Shades likened mg's posts in the above example to Tobin's contrarian trolling, and noted that the solution for tobin was to place him on mod queue.

I don't moderate much in the GD forum unless it shows up in my queue. I can say that about a month ago I ended up spending a long, long time dealing with an avalanche of reports regarding MG and others. That was a hassle. The pattern definitely was MG engaging in petty reporting followed by others retaliating with the same coupled with MG engaging in transparent attempts at thread-derailing followed by others retaliating with the same.

Thanks for the information. I’m not sorry I missed all that.