Russia Likely Did Swing Votes For Donald Trump

[_Kevin Graham]

Insults and contra-factuals. Of course! If I think Hillary was a poor candidate, it can only because I have an irrational hatred for her. By all means show how rational you are by ignoring the fact that I VOTED FOR HER and have said, many times, that she would have made a GOOD or at least DECENT President. Ignore the fact that I have said many times that she was eminently qualified and highly competent.

No, I must say what I say about her being a poor campaigner because I hate her. It can’t be at all reasonable to conclude such a thing when she lost to the worst opponent in American history.

Really, Kevin, you ought to stop with disagreement. Because when you go on to level ridiculous insults at the people you argue with, I guarantee you that the other person is not the one who looks worse for it.

Well, my intention wasn't to make you "look the worse" for anything. It is just a simple disagreement. No one has to come out looking bad. Your initial post calling my OP "________" was a subtle way to make your disagreement known.

I didn't say you have an "irrational hatred" for her and I'm sorry if that's how you read me. I had no idea who you voted for nor have I seen that you've said anything remotely positive about her, at least not that I could remember. I just saw you constantly calling her weak, and then the quip about her being a "corporate imperialist." That didn't sound too flattering. But anyway, we'll agree to disagree.

[_EAllusion]

Shorter me:

Election outcomes are mostly a consequence of factors that are not dependent on the specific candidates running. Candidates can move numbers at the margins, and plenty of elections are decided within the margins. A lot of this stuff, both within and outside of candidate control, is rather dumb. Democracy truly is the worst form of government except all the others.

---------------------------------------------------

Incidentally, the the Supreme Court union case, though long expected, is going to hurt Dems in 2020. It's going to right-to-work the last bastion of union strength in the country. It's going to cut into Democrat fundraising and organization. It's going to demobilize union-issue voters. Democrats are going to be weaker than they otherwise would have been up and down the ticket at least for a couple of cycles. Yes, they have to figure a way to overcome it. Maybe it'll be enough to change macro-outcomes and maybe it won't. That's hard to predict. But the fact that Dems have won before doesn't prove that this doesn't hurt them going forward.

[_DoubtingThomas]

never mind

[_moksha]

By all means blame America for Hillary being a loser.

Game set and match, Americanskis. We have bumped off your queen and your King, Tovarishch, he is belong to us and will not give us no more troublesome sanctions.

Schmo seems to get my point. Listen to Schmo.

Excellent point. He's not just some Schmo, he is the Schmo.

[_moksha]

This cartoon made me nostalgic for Blixa.

[_subgenius]

...snip...
worried so much about what the rest of the world thought of us.
...snip...
I am quite confident about who I am.

well, these 2 statements seem hella contradictory.

[_Markk]

Have you ever thought about giving lessons on internet communication? I really have no idea why, but after 20 years of online posting I guess something is just wrong with the way I come across to people. Because you can say the same exact thing I want to say but you can do so without coming across like you're picking a fight.

I swear I'm not trying to, Kish. I'm just trying to make the same point EAllusion just did, and figured we could just agree to disagree. No reason to take it beyond that.

A suggestion...maybe if you stopped calling people idiots, stupid, and make crazy blanket statements about people and groups, folks might take you more serious.

I get that is just KG...after all, you were calling me a idiot when I was trying to tell you the Book of Abraham was bogus some 10 or 15 years ago.

I will now look forward to your gentle and controlled response

[_Kevin Graham]

A suggestion...maybe if you stopped calling people idiots, stupid, and make crazy blanket statements about people and groups, folks might take you more serious.

I get that is just Kevin Graham...after all, you were calling me a idiot when I was trying to tell you the Book of Abraham was bogus some 10 or 15 years ago.

I will now look forward to your gentle and controlled response

I never once called Kish an idiot. He's one of the smartest persons I've come across online.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I really have no idea why, but after 20 years of online posting I guess something is just wrong with the way I come across to people. Because you can say the same exact thing I want to say but you can do so without coming across like you're picking a fight.

A suggestion...maybe if you stopped calling people idiots, stupid, and make crazy blanket statements about people and groups, folks might take you more serious.

I get that is just Kevin Graham...after all, you were calling me a idiot when I was trying to tell you the Book of Abraham was bogus some 10 or 15 years ago.

I will now look forward to your gentle and controlled response

I never once called Kish an idiot. He's one of the smartest persons I've come across online.

[_beastie]

I keep hearing that Hillary "should" have won the election. (I won't even touch Trump's delusional thinking regarding the electoral college). I challenge that idea.

1. Historically, winning three presidencies in a row happens far more often to republicans than democrats.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/his ... ts-in-2016

That’s only happened twice since 1828 for the Democrats, when the modern two-party era started in earnest. In 1836, the Democratic Vice President Martin Van Buren succeeded Andrew Jackson by defeating four Whig candidates, while President Franklin D. Roosevelt succeeded himself in 1940 by running for an unprecedented third term.

2. The electoral college currently tends to favor republicans.

3. A backlash to the first African American president was likely.

4. Most people just vote party. My LDS family has many anecdotal stories about LDS people being very troubled by Trump, but in the end, still voting for R. I'm sure that's also true for dems when they have a questionable candidate.

So yes, we had two candidates who had their own form of baggage. Trump's personality and history made many people incredulous that anyone would consider him a fit candidate. But, on the flip side, as Kish mentioned on this thread, Hillary was the target of a decades-old cottage industry devoted to maligning her. But, in the end, most republicans voted for Trump because of the R, and democrats voted for Hillary because of the D.

I actually think Hillary did pretty well considering the historical odds against her, the decades-old work to malign her, Russia's work against her, Comey's interference, and voter suppression. I would guess that's an indication of what a horrible candidate Trump was. It should never have been that close. Given just how close it was, I suspect any one of those cited elements could have been enough to affect the outcome.