Doc, Homless in LA

[_Markk]

I did, both the current opioid epidemic and the released prisoners coincide with the increased homelessness...you just ignored that part.

Oh that's not all you've said Markk, but like everything else you've said, you haven't actually provided a reference that argues these factors account for the increased homelessness.

Where did I say or do any of that?

LOL. Mark, the details of what you do don't really matter that much. I would just think that in the general industry you participate in, you should easily see the point that whether they be the officially homeless or downright poor, when they are evicted from their crappy apartments or from behind a dumpster, they have to go somewhere else, right? With the heavy investments in LA developments and soaring rent, those somewhere elses are disappearing, and so where they end up is in your face.

LOL...It doesn't matter so you just lie about it and make crap up? Why, to make you feel better about yourself?

They are evicted for not paying rent...and for many other different reasons, rent included. You only want to say it is the rent, I encompass all the reasons. You also must assume, ALL the homeless are low lives and do not come from other walks of life.

[_EAllusion]

You have taken no position? What a tool.

Why would I? I haven't read enough on the issue to know what is going on. The main thing I read, provided by you, puts on a case that it is changes in affordable housing that explain the sudden spike. To Gadianton's point, this doesn't mean those individuals aren't struggling with mental illness, domestic abuse, AODA issues, existing the foster care system, etc. If that were true, it would mean that the proximate cause of the change in the homeless population is a sudden shortfall in affordable housing such that when people's lives are disrupted, those at the edge fall into homelessness. The distal cause of homelessness can still be those other factors mentioned. Don't confuse explaining the change with explaining underlying factors that lead to homelessness.

I gave just as much proof.

No you didn't. You specifically asked me to break down how much of the variance, the 23% year over year spike, can be explained in terms of high rent and then provide data that backs that up. To quote you, "What percentage of the 23% can be specifically attributed to high rent, and give me the data that backs that up."

This was kinda crazy, as merely asking you to provide evidence for your position doesn't mean I adopt a contrary view. It did strike me that you weren't providing anything like that for your arguments.

I have nothing in principle against the idea that new jail/prison releases could cause a spike in homelessness if those also rapidly increased. If you think that's what happened, then how about you adopt your own advice and demonstrate approximately what % of the 23% can be attributed to that and provide the data that backs that up?

[_EAllusion]

Imagine for a moment we have two cities Markk: City A and City B. In both cities, there are 100 homeless people in 2016 and 120 in 2017. In City A, every year about 40 foster kids exit the system. It's a rough start for them, and in a typical year, 5 of them become homeless. This contributes to the overall equilibrium of the homeless rate. But in 2016, while 40 exited the system, due to a collapse in affordable housing, 25 of them weren't able to find housing and became homeless. 20 kids on the edge who normally are able to find a cheap place to live just couldn't do it because those options weren't available. This explains why there was a sudden spike in homelessness for City A. Meanwhile, in City B it is also true that 40 foster kids exit the system and about 5 become homeless in a typical year. However, in 2016, it there were 200 foster kids who exited the system as a lagging consequence of the opiod epidemic. 25 of them became homeless even though housing availability hadn't changed much. In City B's case, we'd say that increased foster exits is why there was a sudden spike in homelessness.

In City A and City B, it makes sense to describe exiting foster care as an explanatory factor in why the people who are homeless are homeless. If you could fix what about foster care, or having the sort of challenges in life that puts you in foster care, causes homelessness, you could potentially fix the spike in homelessness in both cases. It's just that the change in the homeless rate being caused by the foster care system only holds true in City B's case.

I think this is rudimentary, but based on your comments here and a post you wrote in another thread, I don't think you quite grasp this.

[_Gadianton]

Mark, you did not write a coherent sentence about the 14k needles. You often splice random thoughts together and call them sentences and so it's not always easy to follow you.

Here's what I had in mind:

I have a project going on in the City of Orange, in the really nice part of town next to Chapman University, in what is called the circle. Shops, antique stores, and really good food. Long story short, there is a small dead end alley between the building we are restoring and a Starbucks. I had to literally pick up scores of needles, and maybe a hundred cheap Vodka bottles and kick homeless out of the alley and the building. One homeless man thought he was Perry Mason and argued with me and refused to leave, until I called the cops.

You found their dark corner and personally kicked them out into the light of day. This is why I'm telling you that the reason the homeless are in your face everywhere is because you, personally, along with an army of other renovators and developers are shaking them loose from their nests. The dark corners are disappearing. Where do you expect they'll go?

[_Always Changing]

I see no mention in this debate about the consequences of the fires last season. Many low income people lost their residences. Moving on to the Sam Francisco area-- my brother is low income, laments the fact that low income housing lost is being replaced by-- high end housing.

[_Markk]

Mark, you did not write a coherent sentence about the 14k needles. You often splice random thoughts together and call them sentences and so it's not always easy to follow you.

Here's what I had in mind:

I have a project going on in the City of Orange, in the really nice part of town next to Chapman University, in what is called the circle. Shops, antique stores, and really good food. Long story short, there is a small dead end alley between the building we are restoring and a Starbucks. I had to literally pick up scores of needles, and maybe a hundred cheap Vodka bottles and kick homeless out of the alley and the building. One homeless man thought he was Perry Mason and argued with me and refused to leave, until I called the cops.

You found their dark corner and personally kicked them out into the light of day. This is why I'm telling you that the reason the homeless are in your face everywhere is because you, personally, along with an army of other renovators and developers are shaking them loose from their nests. The dark corners are disappearing. Where do you expect they'll go?

That isn't what i wrote about the 14K needles or the links I provided of the area...in fact I paste a 10 minute plus video of that area.

The area in the paste above is not a dark corner, it is next to an open air dinning, Cuban restaurant...and a Starbucks with two huge windows looking into this short dead end alley. The area is prime property in the City of Orange...and while I doubt is you will believe me...when I started the project before the fences went up...a lady was letting here toddler play in this alley, and I told her I had just picked up fresh needles...she thanked me.

This is the best pic I could find online of the alley...this pic is about two thirds of it...but does not show the two large window looking into it from the bucks.

https://www.google.com/search?q=starbuc ... Ht_ekgMvIM:

This pic is the front of the Starbucks and show the seating for the Cuban Restaurant. The start of the alley is at the right hand side of the restaurant where the down spout is. The alley is about 60 -70 feet long.

https://www.google.com/search?q=starbuc ... vZ84jRDHrM:

These people sat in the alley and did there deeds in front of the public and people eating. This is right by Chapman University and frequented by their students.

No Darkness, no hiding...you are just making stuff up trying to somehow discredit what is going on in So CA, and my opinion and experience. In fact this is pretty close to the location, in a few hundred feet or less of where one of the first orange trees is said to be planted in Orange County, it is a very important and significant place.

https://www.google.com/search?q=orange+ ... NaGMPbICdM:

This the building I am restoring in it original state
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... s42uWDjbAM:

It is now, after years of additions, two times longer and two stories high

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... _qnU2y3LfM:

I just noticed you can see the alley and the two windows at Starbucks in this pic. We removed all the old paint and plaster from the exterior...you can scroll through the pic and see the progress.

My point here, beyond it is a really neat project, is that this a far from being a dark place.

by the way the Cuban restaurant is excellent, and if you are ever down and want a tour...I will treat.

[_schreech]

That isn't what i wrote about the 14K needles or the links I provided of the area...in fact I paste a 10 minute plus video of that area.

The area in the paste above is not a dark corner, it is next to an open air dinning, Cuban restaurant...and a Starbucks with two huge windows looking into this short dead end alley. The area is prime property in the City of Orange...and while I doubt is you will believe me...when I started the project before the fences went up...a lady was letting here toddler play in this alley, and I told her I had just picked up fresh needles...she thanked me.

This is the best pic I could find online of the alley...this pic is about two thirds of it...but does not show the two large window looking into it from the bucks.

https://www.google.com/search?q=starbuc ... Ht_ekgMvIM:

This pic is the front of the Starbucks and show the seating for the Cuban Restaurant. The start of the alley is at the right hand side of the restaurant where the down spout is. The alley is about 60 -70 feet long.

https://www.google.com/search?q=starbuc ... vZ84jRDHrM:

These people sat in the alley and did there deeds in front of the public and people eating. This is right by Chapman University and frequented by their students.

No Darkness, no hiding...you are just making stuff up trying to somehow discredit what is going on in So CA, and my opinion and experience. In fact this is pretty close to the location, in a few hundred feet or less of where one of the first orange trees is said to be planted in Orange County, it is a very important and significant place.

https://www.google.com/search?q=orange+ ... NaGMPbICdM:

This the building I am restoring in it original state
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... s42uWDjbAM:

It is now, after years of additions, two times longer and two stories high

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... _qnU2y3LfM:

I just noticed you can see the alley and the two windows at Starbucks in this pic. We removed all the old paint and plaster from the exterior...you can scroll through the pic and see the progress.

My point here, beyond it is a really neat project, is that this a far from being a dark place.

by the way the Cuban restaurant is excellent, and if you are ever down and want a tour...I will treat.

LOL! markkk is now talking about the orange circle...God, he is so full of [deleted]. This is a very nice area and I eat at that cuban restaurant and the bbq place a few doors up all the time. If this is Markk's standard for what constitutes what is "happening" in southern California, he is living in some sort of dirty needle induced break with reality. I have been to nearly every restaurant in the circle, walked through most alleyways (since parking is on the backside of the main streets) and hung out at various street fairs and friends houses who lived within 2 blocks of the circle dozens of times and I have never encountered any of these horrible things that he claims to have seen. He is so full of [deleted] that I don't even know how to respond to him.

Here, Markkk, If you are using the orange circle as an example of the decline of socal you are literally out of your mind and your life "experiences" are so shallow and meaningless that I think I would take the opinion of a well read non resident over yours any day. Im sorry your situation sucks and your life seems to revolve around only the crappiest parts of southern california - your experiences in a couple alleys and one small section of LA don't reflect the reality of the situation across southern california.

No wonder the best you could do was drive around a one-two block area in LA filming homeless people in order to try to justify this strange fantasy you have about the decline of southern california. You literally filmed the area in LA called skid row, there is a whole foods like 4 blocks from there along with the art walk and one of the nicer shopping areas in downtown along with one of the coolest bookstores I have been to AND the LA grand central market area. That whole area is a huge tourist destination with parks, theaters, outdoor malls, etc, just drive west or north 3 blocks. I take my daughters there all the time and walk from there, past skid row, to china town. Your pipe dream doesn't reflect reality and the area you filmed has not changed much in the last 40 years - Im very familiar with the area you filmed. I especially like how you tried to add some drama about having things thrown at you or having people yell at you for filming - lol. I have walked through that area with my kids in tow many times at various times of the day and, while its not someplace i would prefer to hang out, its nowhere near as bad as you try to make it out to be and its no different than any major city I have been in any where in the world. Again, where else have you lived, worked or visited just so I can understand where you "experiences"...my guess is you have never really lived or worked outside socal so you have no idea how it compares to any other place. That and the fact that you are competing with unskilled, non-english speakers for work in crappy parts of the city seems to have skewed your view of the area.

All cities have homeless populations that correspond to the population and growth of those cities. Downtown LA has been dramatically revitalized over the last 15 years (just google Downtown LA revitalization) pushing the homeless population closer together and into smaller areas as more and more people move back into the city. You literally filmed skid row which is right next to a major rescue mission in the city. Again, you are full of [deleted] and your "real world experience" is completely meaningless considering I lease space at one wilshire and have see the improvements to downtown first hand over the last 20 years. In fact, several of the developers are clients of mine and I have been able to tour several of the huge projects going on all over downtown over the years.

[_Markk]

That isn't what i wrote about the 14K needles or the links I provided of the area...in fact I paste a 10 minute plus video of that area.

The area in the paste above is not a dark corner, it is next to an open air dinning, Cuban restaurant...and a Starbucks with two huge windows looking into this short dead end alley. The area is prime property in the City of Orange...and while I doubt is you will believe me...when I started the project before the fences went up...a lady was letting here toddler play in this alley, and I told her I had just picked up fresh needles...she thanked me.

This is the best pic I could find online of the alley...this pic is about two thirds of it...but does not show the two large window looking into it from the bucks.

https://www.google.com/search?q=starbuc ... Ht_ekgMvIM:

This pic is the front of the Starbucks and show the seating for the Cuban Restaurant. The start of the alley is at the right hand side of the restaurant where the down spout is. The alley is about 60 -70 feet long.

https://www.google.com/search?q=starbuc ... vZ84jRDHrM:

These people sat in the alley and did there deeds in front of the public and people eating. This is right by Chapman University and frequented by their students.

No Darkness, no hiding...you are just making stuff up trying to somehow discredit what is going on in So CA, and my opinion and experience. In fact this is pretty close to the location, in a few hundred feet or less of where one of the first orange trees is said to be planted in Orange County, it is a very important and significant place.

https://www.google.com/search?q=orange+ ... NaGMPbICdM:

This the building I am restoring in it original state
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... s42uWDjbAM:

It is now, after years of additions, two times longer and two stories high

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... _qnU2y3LfM:

I just noticed you can see the alley and the two windows at Starbucks in this pic. We removed all the old paint and plaster from the exterior...you can scroll through the pic and see the progress.

My point here, beyond it is a really neat project, is that this a far from being a dark place.

by the way the Cuban restaurant is excellent, and if you are ever down and want a tour...I will treat.

LOL! markkk is now talking about the orange circle...God, he is so full of [deleted]. This is a very nice area and I eat at that cuban restaurant and the bbq place a few doors up all the time. If this is Markk's standard for what constitutes what is "happening" in southern California, he is living in some sort of dirty needle induced break with reality. I have been to nearly every restaurant in the circle, walked through most alleyways (since parking is on the backside of the main streets) and hung out at various street fairs and friends houses who lived within 2 blocks of the circle dozens of times and I have never encountered any of these horrible things that he claims to have seen. He is so full of [deleted] that I don't even know how to respond to him.

Here, Markkk, If you are using the orange circle as an example of the decline of socal you are literally out of your mind and your life "experiences" are so shallow and meaningless that I think I would take the opinion of a well read non resident over yours any day. Im sorry your situation sucks and your life seems to revolve around only the crappiest parts of southern california - your experiences in a couple alleys and one small section of LA don't reflect the reality of the situation across southern california.

No wonder the best you could do was drive around a one-two block area in LA filming homeless people in order to try to justify this strange fantasy you have about the decline of southern california. You literally filmed the area in LA called skid row, there is a whole foods like 4 blocks from there along with the art walk and one of the nicer shopping areas in downtown along with one of the coolest bookstores I have been to AND the LA grand central market area. That whole area is a huge tourist destination with parks, theaters, outdoor malls, etc, just drive west or north 3 blocks. I take my daughters there all the time and walk from there, past skid row, to china town. Your pipe dream doesn't reflect reality and the area you filmed has not changed much in the last 40 years - Im very familiar with the area you filmed. I especially like how you tried to add some drama about having things thrown at you or having people yell at you for filming - lol. I have walked through that area with my kids in tow many times at various times of the day and, while its not someplace i would prefer to hang out, its nowhere near as bad as you try to make it out to be and its no different than any major city I have been in any where in the world. Again, where else have you lived, worked or visited just so I can understand where you "experiences"...my guess is you have never really lived or worked outside socal so you have no idea how it compares to any other place. That and the fact that you are competing with unskilled, non-english speakers for work in crappy parts of the city seems to have skewed your view of the area.

All cities have homeless populations that correspond to the population and growth of those cities. Downtown LA has been dramatically revitalized over the last 15 years (just google Downtown LA revitalization) pushing the homeless population closer together and into smaller areas as more and more people move back into the city. You literally filmed skid row which is right next to a major rescue mission in the city. Again, you are full of [deleted] and your "real world experience" is completely meaningless considering I lease space at one wilshire and have see the improvements to downtown first hand over the last 20 years. In fact, several of the developers are clients of mine and I have been able to tour several of the huge projects going on all over downtown over the years.

walk around the park in front of Ruby's at night bare foot. Let's meet for lunch. We can drive the streets, Hollywood, north Hollywood, east LA, south centrAl. How many blocks around skid row is the problem growing. Or under the 10...110 FW. On my phone more later about The circle...not a dark place as glad tried to warp my example.

[_schreech]

The area in the paste above is not a dark corn walk around the park in front of Ruby's at night bare foot.

WTF are you trying to say here? I wouldn't walk barefoot outside of any ruby's restaurant (even the stand on the beach in newport) so Im not sure what you are tying to say. There are no parts of any city in the US that I would walk around barefoot...what a stupid thing to say. Do you expect that you should be able to walk around any major urban area barefoot? Is that your yardstick for what makes a city great? Wft? You havent made any sense yet, why start now i guess.

Let's meet for lunch. We can drive the streets, Hollywood, north Hollywood, east LA, south centrAl.

I drive them regularly without you - they look like the interesting/diverse/poor parts of any major city and have looked that way for decades. The interesting thing is that downtown LA is booming and people are moving back in and want to visit in droves. Its strange that someone who claims to work in construction doesn't notice how much of the city has been rebuilt. What is it that you think im going to see with you? Again, where else have you worked or lived so that we can understand what you are comparing the demise of LA with? Have you been anywhere else, at all?

How many blocks around skid row is the problem growing. Or under the 10...110 FW. On my phone more later about The circle...not a dark place as glad tried to warp my example.

Its the same as its always been, in fact, the new developments are pushing further and further into skid row, that is why you were only really able to show 2 blocks as your example of the decline of socal. Grand Central market and that entire area has been revitalized and is starting to push into previously crappy areas. For someone who has never left the LA area, you don't seem to know anything about it. For the 8th time, where else have you lived or worked outside south LA? You seem ridiculously naïve but that doesn't seem to stop you from ignorantly telling everyone that your limited "experiences" should trump actual data...Im really curious, what are you comparing your experiences in LA with? Where else have you lived or worked?

[_Markk]

The area in the paste above is not a dark corn walk around the park in front of Ruby's at night bare foot.

WTF are you trying to say here? I wouldn't walk barefoot outside of any ruby's restaurant (even the stand on the beach in newport) so Im not sure what you are tying to say. There are no parts of any city in the US that I would walk around barefoot...what a stupid thing to say. Do you expect that you should be able to walk around any major urban area barefoot? Is that your yardstick for what makes a city great? Wft? You haven't made any sense yet, why start now i guess.

Let's meet for lunch. We can drive the streets, Hollywood, north Hollywood, east LA, south centrAl.

I drive them regularly without you - they look like the interesting/diverse/poor parts of any major city and have looked that way for decades. The interesting thing is that downtown LA is booming and people are moving back in and want to visit in droves. Its strange that someone who claims to work in construction doesn't notice how much of the city has been rebuilt. What is it that you think im going to see with you? Again, where else have you worked or lived so that we can understand what you are comparing the demise of LA with? Have you been anywhere else, at all?

How many blocks around skid row is the problem growing. Or under the 10...110 FW. On my phone more later about The circle...not a dark place as glad tried to warp my example.

Its the same as its always been, in fact, the new developments are pushing further and further into skid row, that is why you were only really able to show 2 blocks as your example of the decline of socal. Grand Central market and that entire area has been revitalized and is starting to push into previously ____ areas. For someone who has never left the LA area, you don't seem to know anything about it. For the 8th time, where else have you lived or worked outside south LA? You seem ridiculously naïve but that doesn't seem to stop you from ignorantly telling everyone that your limited "experiences" should trump actual data...Im really curious, what are you comparing your experiences in LA with? Where else have you lived or worked?

There is a little park in front of Ruby's where the folks in the ally no sleep every night. And they come out in the mornings and sit on the benches in front of Starbucks. You might step on a needle. My point of the circle is that it is even in really nice places and if you took the time to read that you would understand.

Di you see the encampments on the 57 before they took them down?

I was going to Burbank the other day and there is an camp along the 163 freeway of about 20 tents...one had about 20 birthday type balloons on the tent. And if you just look around you see these encampments all over the place. along the 101 going to Hollwood etc. It was not like this 5 years ago to the degree it is now...that is just a fact.

I never said anything about the city being rebuilt, I am apart of it...we finished up exterior of the Broadway trade center...the largest footprint of any building in LA.

I am not sure why you keep stating that?

Are you saying skid row is not expanding? Or the folks around the city and county? It has grown 75% in six years?

I grew up in San Bernardino until 72...lived in Yucaipa since. I work all over So CA...San Diego to the Valley.


Well we can just meet and get to know each other, and share our opinions.

Where do you live?