Breast is Best>

[_Jersey Girl]

I just want to put a few things "out there". I'm on 4 hours of sleep--don't ask.

It's been about 10 years since I've prepared a bottles of either infant formula or breastmilk, and prepared them en masse for an infant nursery ;-), so something might be different but I don't think so...I did help feed a preemie not so long ago so I don't think anything has changed.

(I have no brain cells left, bear with me)

Preparing a bottle of infant formula takes about 2 seconds. So long as there is a clean water source, there is no need to sterilize anything. It takes oh, I dunno, maybe 10 minutes to hand wash a dozen bottles or you can run them through the dishwasher. A dishwasher is the name of the game in an infant nursery.

There's no need to chill anything--so long as you're using powdered formula, it's as easy as throwing powdered flavoring into your adult water bottle or whipping up a glass of pedialyte for a child. In fact, preparing a bottle of breastmilk can take longer depending on how you're giving it a little warm up.

Let's not forget women who choose to exclusively formula feed, breastfeed, exclusively pump, supplement, use donor milk, and women whose plans were thwarted due to unforeseen circumstances.

Let's exercise support and compassion for all of them. Everyone has a story. Our stories are not theirs.

(If none of this made sense, I refer you to sentence #2)

[_Jersey Girl]

I think you were actually saying breastfeeding is better because it's objectively more convenient. You may have been insulated from the world of pumps, lactation consultants, massive doses of fenugreek, shields, nipple balm, thrush, reconnaissance missions to find places to feed, etc. women sometimes go through. If everything goes well, it certainly can be more convenient.

The fenugreek...we used to take brewer's yeast. Instead of today's nipple balm we used straight up lanolin and did some old fashioned "preparation" (good times, but it worked) before baby was born so there wasn't much need for lanolin--which if I recall correctly, needed to be washed off prior to feeding vs vitamin E that did not. (I might have that backwards, it's been a while) And now, there's also Mother's Milk Tea which sounds like a good idea.

Let's not forget mother's who struggle with mental illness.

This society can manufacture any number of reasons to make a mother feel less than valued. It's really some kind of blasphemy to do it to each other. But it happens. We live in a competitive society.

Some days it sucks, particularly when we think we're losing the "race".

[_Jersey Girl]

Every woman I know who breastfed had to pump, because they also work, which was ridiculously inconvenient. I'm not sure any of them would've appreciated someone extolling the virtues of convienance while they had a machine hooked up to their breasts in a car on their lunch break.

There's also SAHM's that exclusively pump and bottle feed because of the freedom it gives them.

At first I thought maybe this is just a bias for Mormon influenced stay at home Mom culture. Then I remembered two women I know talking about latching problems that led to use of nipple shields that led to clamping issues that were so bad they said it was like their nipples were being stabbed with sharp knives every day.

Knives'll do it. Let's talk about biting. The little terrorists.

[_Lemmie]

Don’t interpret my failure to flesh that sentence out better as an indictment of women who opt for formula. It isn’t.

Are you referring to this part?

Still, in situations where it could have seemed subjectively more convenient to whip out a stashed bottle of formula, breastfeeding was still the choice.

I don't think you realize how offensive this statement can come across.

My sister-in-law could not breastfeed without a struggle for several reasons - none of them related to her work or home situation - and there was certainly no judgment rendered by anyone that we personally knew because of her eventual complete reliance on formula. Such misplaced judgment would have been presumptuous and cruel.

Yes. Are you sure the people who didn't know her situation didn't mention to her that she should try not subjective inconvenience as an excuse to whip out that stashed bottle?

Not giving you a hard time, canpakes, I'm just trying to make the point that a woman's controllable attitude is irrelevant when a woman can't breastfeed, and continuing to argue that attitude can fix issues opens the door to women being shamed for not doing it. I gather attitude helped your situation, that's great, but I still would argue that the good attitude was correlated with your ability to breastfeed, not causal to it.

[_canpakes]

Not giving you a hard time, canpakes, I'm just trying to make the point that a woman's controllable attitude is irrelevant when a woman can't breastfeed, and continuing to argue that attitude can fix issues opens the door to women being shamed for not doing it. I gather attitude helped your situation, that's great, but I still would argue that the good attitude was correlated with your ability to breastfeed, not causal to it.

Lemmie, we are actually in complete agreement on this one. I am arguing that attitude and situation are factors when a woman has a choice. I am absolutely not arguing that in the situation of mothers without that choice that simply putting on a happy face or adopting a different attitude will change that. It won’t. And it would be horrible for anyone to assume as much.

That’s why I entered the conversation in the first place. It seems like many formula manufacturers market their product in a manner that aims for women who have the choice to either breastfeed or use formula, with the intent to influence the decision in favor of formula due to convenience. The position that I’m taking is in relation to that concept of convenience, and the idea that attitudes about what convenience means - and the perceived benefit of it relative to other factors - contribute to the decision.

[_canpakes]

Preparing a bottle of infant formula takes about 2 seconds. So long as there is a clean water source, there is no need to sterilize anything. It takes oh, I dunno, maybe 10 minutes to hand wash a dozen bottles or you can run them through the dishwasher. A dishwasher is the name of the game in an infant nursery.

If I recall correctly, the country that was initially sponsoring the resolution was Ecuador. For poorer nations such as this, reliable and clean water sources are not always guaranteed.

[_Doctor Steuss]

If I recall correctly, the country that was initially sponsoring the resolution was Ecuador. For poorer nations such as this, reliable and clean water sources are not always guaranteed.

I don’t know about water concerns, but there is a definite risk surrounding the actual formulas – in particular in countries that might lack (or have lapses in) some oversight.

It was only a decade ago that about 53,000 babies were hospitalized (and several died) as a result of the Sanlu baby formula scandal -- estimates are that about 300,000 were made sick from the formula. There was another instance in China where some people were arrested for making fake formula and slapping name-brand labels on it (like Similac), and yet another where a company had to recall formula after a watchdog group found high mercury levels.

Earlier this year France had a salmonella scare with forumula that ended up with 26 infants hospitalized (they had a similar problem with the same company in 2005 where more than 140 babies were hospitalized).

[_Lemmie]

Not giving you a hard time, canpakes, I'm just trying to make the point that a woman's controllable attitude is irrelevant when a woman can't breastfeed, and continuing to argue that attitude can fix issues opens the door to women being shamed for not doing it. I gather attitude helped your situation, that's great, but I still would argue that the good attitude was correlated with your ability to breastfeed, not causal to it.

Lemmie, we are actually in complete agreement on this one....

Thanks, I appreciate your comments.

That’s why I entered the conversation in the first place. It seems like many formula manufacturers market their product in a manner that aims for women who have the choice to either breastfeed or use formula, with the intent to influence the decision in favor of formula due to convenience...

I don't think convenience is the issue that caused the dispute over the resolution. Re: just formula marketing in general, world-wide, no matter how much people may disagree with other people's choices made on the basis of convenience, I don't see how preventing marketers from emphasizing convenience can be legislated. People have a right to make this choice based on their criteria, which may contain convenience. I personally feel that right can potentially be overridden in a limited way if it offers a best solution to issues related to children, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

The notes chap posted emphasized mis-information as the influence:

14. [Advertising] Messages [for baby-milk formula] should not:
• include any image, text or other representation that might suggest use for infants under the age of 6 months (including references to milestones and stages);
• include any image, text or other representation that is likely to undermine or discourage breastfeeding, that makes a comparison to breast-milk, or that suggests that the product is nearly equivalent or superior to breast-milk;
• recommend or promote bottle feeding;
• convey an endorsement or anything that may be construed as an endorsement by a professional or other body, unless this has been specifically approved by relevant national, regional or international regulatory authorities

[_canpakes]

I don't think convenience is the issue that caused the dispute over the resolution. Re: just formula marketing in general, world-wide, no matter how much people may disagree with other people's choices made on the basis of convenience, I don't see how preventing marketers from emphasizing convenience can be legislated. People have a right to make this choice based on their criteria, which may contain convenience. I personally feel that right can potentially be overridden in a limited ways if it offers a best solution to issues related to children, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Agreed. Adding here, too, that my earlier comment was interpreted more in the vein of First World experiences versus Third World Realities, likely because I worded this clumsily:

Also, breastfeeding is ridiculously more convenient. No hauling around or cleaning separate bottles. No purchase required of same. Mom is always prepared for the baby’s needs.

This is a huge asset for folks in less-developed nations. Breastfeeding also contributes to less water use and wastewater generation (by not washing and sterilizing formula bottles) and less chance of infecting the baby from improperly cleaned bottles and nipples.

I’d bet that more than a few folks in the States don’t always consider that mothers tending children in Third World nations won’t always have the infrastructure and resources to deal with what we take for granted every day, or what we regard as simple and convenient. If a mother is hauling in her daily supply of water by jug and on foot over a few miles, it might not be the best use of that water to clean out formula bottles when the breastfeeding option is available. This is the sort of ‘convenience’ that I’m referring to.

[_subgenius]

...If a mother is hauling in her daily supply of water by jug and on foot over a few miles, it might not be the best use of that water to clean out formula bottles when the breastfeeding option is available. This is the sort of ‘convenience’ that I’m referring to.

are you suggesting that these water-toting mothers are receiving the marketing campaign materials? ...Enfamil ad-campaign via billboards along the water-toting trail?
exactly how do you "imagine" these mothers are being exposed to this seemingly unscrupulous advert campaign that the WHO protects them from?