Trump Being Treasonous on Television

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_Water Dog
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _Water Dog »

honorentheos wrote:Dog, in a sense I agree with what you seem to imply here. That being, a rush to judgment following the momentum of a politically motivated crowd can be disastrous down the road.

But is that what you are legit arguing here, or just using for cover as a way of not being willing to look at the implications of the claims and the nature of the evidence coming out?

I was skeptical of the Bush Admin's claims but not dismissive until the Powell presentation to the UN. To me, the evidence didn't add up and while not completely conclusive in eliminating the potential of WMD's, it certainly didn't justify going to war.

In the case of the Russia investigation, while some are jumping right to impeachment off the line I think the actual direction being pursued is to let the investigations move forward. The evidence seems to justify doing so.

Do you disagree? Are you of the opinion the only right action is to shut down the Mueller investigation?

Yes, it's what I'm legit arguing. In part. Implications of the claims? I fully understand the implications, I simply don't believe the claims. Show me the evidence.

Right action? I don't know. This is a hard question to answer because I'm not in possession of all the facts. None of us knows what Trump does or doesn't know. It goes without saying that he has access to a unique set of information. I think the special investigation should be brought to an end, yes. Clearly he has reasons for not doing that, because he hasn't. I suspect those reasons have to do with midterm elections. Time will tell what he does. I figure this is the home stretch. Meeting with Putin, heading into midterms, this is when the DS/New Testament crowd attacks. Whatever they've got, they're going to let it fly. After the midterms it's game over one way or another. It has to be. If special investigation doesn't end itself by November, Trump will end it by order shortly after the midterms. And then I think a whole bunch of people are getting fired, starting with Sessions and Rosenstein. Daniel Coats should be fired immediately. Like, today. Before AF1 even lands at next destination.
_Chap
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _Chap »

Water Dog wrote:None of us knows what Trump does or doesn't know.


The word 'know' suggests we are dealing with a rational ethical agent who asks questions like "Do I have good reason to be sure that this is the case?"

And you think that a thought process like that can find some kind of lodgement in the anarchic chaos that sits underneath the orange comb-over?

Water Dog wrote:It goes without saying that he has access to a unique set of information.


'Information'? Like objective facts about the world with which he is acquainted? You really think that Trump believes there are any facts about the world that are just the case, independent of his desires or hatreds? Do you not remember the farce about how many people came to his inauguration?
Zadok:
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Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_EAllusion
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _EAllusion »

Water Dog wrote:Yes, it's what I'm legit arguing. In part. Implications of the claims? I fully understand the implications, I simply don't believe the claims. Show me the evidence.

Right action? I don't know. This is a hard question to answer because I'm not in possession of all the facts. None of us knows what Trump does or doesn't know. It goes without saying that he has access to a unique set of information. I think the special investigation should be brought to an end, yes. Clearly he has reasons for not doing that, because he hasn't. I suspect those reasons have to do with midterm elections. Time will tell what he does. I figure this is the home stretch. Meeting with Putin, heading into midterms, this is when the DS/New Testament crowd attacks. Whatever they've got, they're going to let it fly. After the midterms it's game over one way or another. It has to be. If special investigation doesn't end itself by November, Trump will end it by order shortly after the midterms. And then I think a whole bunch of people are getting fired, starting with Sessions and Rosenstein. Daniel Coats should be fired immediately. Like, today. Before AF1 even lands at next destination.



I haven't seen any convincing evidence. Also, Trump should stop investigators looking for evidence that might convince me.
_moksha
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _moksha »

Putin going so far as to suggest that Russia and the United States form a ”working group” to get to the bottom of the election whole thing. ”I think that's an incredible offer,” said Trump, who periodically leaned over to see whether Putin had agreed or responded to his praises.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/trump-putin-summit-outcome?

The Putin-Trump joint findings of non-interference will be issued from the Kremlin sometime in August.
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_moksha
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _moksha »

Putin, for his part, remained stony-faced—that is, until he seemed to chuckle when asked whether Russia had compromising information on Trump.
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_Water Dog
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _Water Dog »

EAllusion wrote:I haven't seen any convincing evidence. Also, Trump should stop investigators looking for evidence that might convince me.

You say this as though I'm arguing for the DOJ to be shut down. A constitutionally dubious special investigator is not needed. FBI counter-intelligence, as a normal course of its business can pursue investigations into Russians.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/ ... interview/
_Maksutov
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _Maksutov »

Water Dog wrote:
EAllusion wrote:I haven't seen any convincing evidence. Also, Trump should stop investigators looking for evidence that might convince me.

You say this as though I'm arguing for the DOJ to be shut down. A constitutionally dubious special investigator is not needed. FBI counter-intelligence, as a normal course of its business can pursue investigations into Russians.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/ ... interview/


I think that after Watergate, Iran Contra, the conduct of the Whitewater investigation and other GOP circuses, the public is justifiably skeptical of the integrity of Republicans investigating Republicans in a matter like this. Let the investigation by Mueller continue. There is a whole lot at stake. Trump naturally wants to avoid scrutiny and accountability. Congress is not likely to do its Constitutional duty. The press is too partisan to be as effective as it could/should be. The rest of us get to speak out in the ways we can, while we can. Sorry, Dog. We aren't ready for a King yet. At least, not all of us.

With Trump's actions of today, the need for the investigation is clearer than ever. Sorry you can't see anything wrong in a President throwing his people under the bus for Russia. These are your fellow Americans and often your comrades in arms. I guess you've forgotten.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_moksha
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _moksha »

Fox News hosts called Trump's performance in the press conference disgusting, yet in Trump's defense, what's the guy going to do with the threat of the ominous Urinary Hookers Video haunting him? The only thing he can do: Attack the FBI and the American press.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _Some Schmo »

EAllusion wrote:Water Dog's schtick is two-fold here.

The first post I read of his in the Fear of the Left thread was enough to convince me his posts are a complete waste of time. He is either living on another planet, a troll, or as big an ignoramus as Drumpf. Likely some combination of the three.

Whatever the case is, he's someone whose posts I feel good about skipping. I don't have time for blatant nonsense.
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_Water Dog
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Re: Trump Being Treasonous on Television

Post by _Water Dog »

Maksutov wrote:With Trump's actions of today, the need for the investigation is clearer than ever. Sorry you can't see anything wrong in a President throwing his people under the bus for Russia. These are your fellow Americans and often your comrades in arms. I guess you've forgotten.

Buddy, you're crossing the line with this comment. I'll just leave it at that. If you want to say anything further about my comrades in arms, I invite you to visit another forum I frequent to make your case. I'm sure you'll get lots of support.

http://socnet.com/showthread.php?p=1058737028
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