Socrates

[_subgenius]

We have no writings from Socrates himself. We only know of his existence through the writings of other people. We actually have more eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence than of Socrates'.

But who on this board has ever doubted that Socrates existed?

[_Chap]

We have no writings from Socrates himself. We only know of his existence through the writings of other people. We actually have more eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence than of Socrates'.

But who on this board has ever doubted that Socrates existed?

Like the great majority of people with some historical awareness, I see the suggestion that the Jesus of faith has no foundation in a real Jewish religious leader active around 30 AD as being of the same order of credibility as your average conspiracy theory. So let's not rehash that.

However, I don't think there is a credible body of New Testament scholars who think that significant parts of the Gospels were actually written by eye-witnesses of Jesus's activities. The case with Socrates is entirely different. No-one disputes that (for instance) Plato and Xenophon both knew Socrates personally and that they are writing from first-hand knowledge, and the playwright Aristophanes who was a contemporary even put a satirical portrayal of Socrates in his play The Clouds - which was the Athenian equivalent of his being caricatured on Saturday Night Live..

There's nothing like that about Jesus.

[_honorentheos]

Well said, Chap.

[_subgenius]

We have no writings from Socrates himself. We only know of his existence through the writings of other people. We actually have more eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence than of Socrates'.

But who on this board has ever doubted that Socrates existed?

Like the great majority of people with some historical awareness, I see the suggestion that the Jesus of faith has no foundation in a real Jewish religious leader active around 30 AD as being of the same order of credibility as your average conspiracy theory. So let's not rehash that.

However, I don't think there is a credible body of New Testament scholars who think that significant parts of the Gospels were actually written by eye-witnesses of Jesus's activities. The case with Socrates is entirely different. No-one disputes that (for instance) Plato and Xenophon both knew Socrates personally and that they are writing from first-hand knowledge, and the playwright Aristophanes who was a contemporary even put a satirical portrayal of Socrates in his play The Clouds - which was the Athenian equivalent of his being caricatured on Saturday Night Live..

There's nothing like that about Jesus.

credible body being an incredibly subjective measure put forth by you.
But thanks for stopping by, after your google, and saying, without brevity, "unh unh".

The facts put forth in the OP are undisputed and serve only to accent your blind faith bias on the matter.

[_honorentheos]

subbie -

How many eyewitness accounts of the life of the historical Jesus do you think we have, and who are they?

[_Chap]

The OP was:

We have no writings from Socrates himself. We only know of his existence through the writings of other people. We actually have more eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence than of Socrates'.

But who on this board has ever doubted that Socrates existed?

Now you say:

The facts put forth in the OP are undisputed

Actually the claim that there are 'eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence' is widely disputed.* So back it up: where, in your view, can we find an account of Jesus existence written by an eyewitness? And what is your evidence that the accounts you point to are by eyewitnesses?

(As I have said, no-one disputes that there are eyewitness accounts of Socrates' activities.)

*To avoid distraction, I repeat that I do not dispute that the accounts of Jesus in the New Testament are ultimately based on the activities of a real Jew living in the 1st century. So let's not go down that rabbit hole, OK?

[_subgenius]

The OP was:

We have no writings from Socrates himself. We only know of his existence through the writings of other people. We actually have more eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence than of Socrates'.

But who on this board has ever doubted that Socrates existed?

Now you say:

The facts put forth in the OP are undisputed

Actually the claim that there are 'eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence' is widely disputed.* So back it up: where, in your view, can we find an account of Jesus existence written by an eyewitness? And what is your evidence that the accounts you point to are by eyewitnesses?

(As I have said, no-one disputes that there are eyewitness accounts of Socrates' activities.)

*To avoid distraction, I repeat that I do not dispute that the accounts of Jesus in the New Testament are ultimately based on the activities of a real Jew living in the 1st century. So let's not go down that rabbit hole, OK?

Oh now i see why your post is stupid (other than your clumsy attempt to isolate New Testament) . You are dismissing the eyewitness claims because they are disputed...not that the claims were not "claimed" just that there is dispute...kinda like the question in the OP alludes to.
So i am assuming you don't have access google?

Nevertheless the OP sets forth facts that are indisputable at this point. Its like how this isn't an exercise of "differentiate" the eyesitness accounts but rather its one of "differentiate" why you believe what you believe...and beleive this - no one reading this thread questioned Socrates existence because they simply were unaware of facts...none, including yourself, ever weighed the existence of Socrates against the credibility of eyewitness accounts.
Being taught isn't the same as learning.


Still being spoon fed eh?

[_honorentheos]

subbie -

Is it your position the four authors of the gospels in the current New Testament were eye witnesses to the life of the historical Jesus?

[_Chap]

We have no writings from Socrates himself. We only know of his existence through the writings of other people. We actually have more eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence than of Socrates'.

The facts put forth in the OP are undisputed

Actually the claim that there are 'eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence' is widely disputed.

You are dismissing the eyewitness claims because they are disputed

Well, for a start we now seem to be agreed that the claim in the OP "We actually have more eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence than of Socrates" is disputed, although you initially claimed that that was undisputed.

So we are making progress!

Now, just to get this straight, what "eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence" are you talking about? Once we know that, we can start discussing whether what you claim to be eyewitness accounts are actually likely to be so, can't we?

So over to you ...

[By the way, I am assuming that when subgenius says "eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence", he is referring to accounts that a reasonably critical person might conclude were "eyewitness accounts of Jesus' existence", rather than just counting in every piece of writing that has ever been presented as such, irrespective of the evidence for its genuineness.

Or am I wrong there, do you think?]

[_honorentheos]

Subbie being Mormon could be including any number of people. The original author of 3rd Nephi, filtered through Mormon filtered through Smith could be one in subbie's mind. It would be best for him take a clear stand and then defend it.