DiscussMormonism.com

Illegal immigrants armed with torches, hacksaws, ladders and even bungee cords are making it around a section of the border fence hailed as the most efficient way to stop them.

In the 10 months since the section was put up, the only method federal agents haven't seen is a tunnel — "Yet," said Victor Guzman, the supervisory Border Patrol agent responsible for the stretch of close-together 15-foot cement-filled steel poles planted three feet into the ground.

Agents responsible for guarding the stretch of border here "almost immediately" started seeing cuts in the fence. The towering gray and rust colored posts are marked with bright orange spray paint in areas believed to have been breached, Guzman said.

Guzman, who has worked in the area for nearly a decade, said agents have found holes cut with acetylene torches, hacksaws and even plasma torches — a high-powered tool that uses inert gas or condensed air to quickly cut through steel and other dense metals.
"We see it once or twice a week," Guzman said of the holes along the 1.5-mile stretch of fencing about 80 miles west of El Paso.

Experience along the U.S. southern border demonstrates that even with fortifications, a wall provides only modest capacity to stop illegal crossings. Determined individuals have demonstrated their ability to rapidly breach the physical barrier using saws, acetylene torches and other tools to cut through the wall within minutes and before patrols can respond. Tunnels, some over a mile long, have been built to smuggle people and narcotics into the United States. Storm drainage systems have served as ready routes for illegal entry.

Building a wall spanning the entire U.S.-Mexico border would have its own negative consequences, including high cost, likely requirement for use of eminent domain to gain access to the property in some locations, and diverting resources away from other border control measures that have a higher probability of success.


Apprehensions along the southern border are down in comparing 2014 and 2015 data, though the number of unaccompanied minors is growing. Additionally, the number of visa overstays – 500,000 in fiscal year 2015 alone – highlights a larger problem with illegal immigration.

As a member of Congress, I am in frequent contact with experts, including US Border Patrol agents and US Border Patrol sector chiefs, who have reaffirmed my belief that expanding the wall won't help much in securing the border. We already have permanent walls and fences in the highest traffic areas -- and they have proven to be unsuccessful. Between 2010 and 2015, the current 654 mile pedestrian wall was breached 9,287 times.

subgenius wrote:so when your own post states - "Experience along the U.S. southern border demonstrates that even with fortifications, a wall provides only modest capacity to stop illegal crossings" your argument is that in lieu of modest capacity we should have NO capacity - got it!

But you bring up a good point...maybe a fence is too easy to breach...hmm...got any stats on how often a concrete wall is breached?

Kevin Graham wrote:<subgenius's> argument was that a wall stops them cold, which is demonstrably false and has been even laughably false since the time those barriers were first constructed.

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...The Steel Barrier, or Wall, should have been built by previous administrations long ago. They never got it done - I will. Without it, our Country cannot be safe. Criminals, Gangs, Human Traffickers, Drugs & so much other big trouble can easily pour in. It can be stopped cold!
8:16 am - 11 Jan 2019

Kevin Graham wrote:

subgenius wrote:so when your own post states - "Experience along the U.S. southern border demonstrates that even with fortifications, a wall provides only modest capacity to stop illegal crossings" your argument is that in lieu of modest capacity we should have NO capacity - got it!

But you bring up a good point...maybe a fence is too easy to breach...hmm...got any stats on how often a concrete wall is breached?

That was never the argument dumbass. The argument is that we should rely on better methods, move towards technological advances in securing/monitoring borders instead of using 14th century methods that don't work. Your argument was that a wall stops them cold, which is demonstrably false and has been even laughably false since the time those barriers were first constructed. It was a waste of money then and it is a waste of money now.

And the article says they use "ladders and even bungee cords" which would be easier going over a wall than a fence since a concrete wall wouldn't give way and make it much easier for a group of people to climb over using ropes or ladders.

Hard to believe you're an architect and you don't know this stuff:

All eight border wall prototypes fail basic penetrability test

subgenius wrote:got any stats on how often a concrete wall is breached?

DoubtingThomas wrote:

subgenius wrote:got any stats on how often a concrete wall is breached?

You can simply dig a tunnel.

Kevin Graham wrote:Your argument was that a wall stops them cold

subgenius wrote:Yes, tunnel digging - its so simple. geez.
So, you got no stats, thanks.
and "because tunnel" is your argument against a wall?....look, there goes bathwater, and there goes baby.