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A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:39 pm
by _honorentheos
Some may remember the rule changes made by the DNC intended to reduce or remove the influence of superdelegates in selecting the party's presidential nominee. The rule change prohibits superdelegates from voting on the first ballot, and requires that pledged delegates vote for the person to whom they are pledged. The change was intended to ensure the candidate who receives the majority of votes from voters in state primaries would not be overwhelmed by a party insider candidate who had picked up the votes of superdelegates.

Relevant article: https://www.npr.org/2018/08/25/64172540 ... ng-process

Sounds very small "d" democratic.

But the Democrats have other rules and procedures that are almost guaranteed to make this rule change not only irrelevant, but backfire completely. Those include spliting delegates based on votes earned rather than have a winner-take-all system at the state level. Or allowing any candidate with 15% of the total vote to enter the convention. Taking both into account, while the impossibly perfect split of 6 candidates with 15% each won't happen, it would take only two candidates with enough votes to enter the convention to prevent the leading candidate from winning the nomination on the first ballot. And who here doesn't think that three Democrat candidates will earn at least 15% of the vote total during the primary process? And insist on going to the convention to make sure their constituents are heard?

Other factors likely to matter include the way campaigns rely more and more on bringing in large numbers of small but regular donations. This matters because the drying up of campaign contributions as a candidate becomes less likely to win is one of the most likely causes for someone dropping out of a race they can't win. When the contributions are coming from potentially hundreds of thousands or millions of people ideologically aligned with a candidate, like Bernie in 2016 for example, the ability to win the nomination stops being a consideration when one is deciding to give up a $5 coffee a week to send to the cause.

If we look back at the Republican primaries in 2016, the field was about as wide (17 candidates) but with different rules. Having a loyal, "30% of the vote" base meant Trump was often able to win states where he would then receive all of the delegates. Often this occurred where another candidate was neck-and-neck with him but came up empty handed when it came to delegates going to the convention. A great way to see this is to check out the pie charts state by state at this wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_o ... _primaries

This had the effect of winnowing the field down as his loyal, dedicated base ensured he could walk away with all of the marbles available state-to-state as long as he could out-compete the next most supported candidate even if no one was able to win more than 30-40% of the votes. The rest of the candidates found themselves playing chicken with one another, each urging everyone else to quit the race so that someone could beat Trump but not being willing to step aside until either the math or the contributions made it clear it was time to hand their delegates over to someone else. In effect, they lost sight of the bigger picture in the name of their own interest. Of course, the other aspect of the Republican side that doesn't exist among Democrats is the sense the evil on the other side of the political aisle is worse than anything any candidate from their side would represent. It's hard to tell if Democrats would be able to shift from supporting a candidate they felt represented them to someone who was more/less ideologically liberal, not the gender they wanted to see elected, or too inside/outside Washington. How's that? Isn't Trump the bigger evil that the party will be able to unite around? Personally, I wouldn't put money on that. Democrats are going through the equivalent of the Tea Party revolution this cycle where ideological purity against establishment or radical elements in the party are seen as being equally problematic if not just another face of some bigger evil that needs to be resisted. Whether this week's attempt to censure Ilhan Omar over the use of anti-Semitic tropes in expressing opposition to the US's pro-Israel stance that became instead a general condemnation of bigotry represents a shift that bodes well or ill for this is up for debate. But it certainly seems to reflect what we should expect to see over the next year and a half.

Coming back to the 2020 Democrat Convention, it is looking more and more certain that no one candidate is going to win on the first ballot. It just isn't going to happen if today has anything to say about a year from now. At which point, the rules are a dried tinder bed of uncertainty. If a candidate fails to win a clear majority on the first ballot, where delegates are obligated to vote for the person to whom they are pledged, then this obligation goes out the window and delegates are free to vote for whomever they want on the next ballot. And, in a move almost certain to set fire to the tinder bed of outrage on the part of younger, much more liberal Democrats, the superdelegates will not only be back in the voting but they are exactly the people that have developed the skills and connections for brokering political deals for a candidate.

At this point, the exact opposite happens compared to what the rule changes were intended to cause: The nominee of the Democratic party in 2020 will be selected at the convention by the delegates and not based on who won the most votes in the state primaries. I don't see that going well.

So, what does this mean today? If I were a Republican strategist working at the national level or Russian online troll I'd be doing all I could to make sure Democrats can't stand one another. You know, telling Democrats that the left wing of the party is dangerously bonkers, that establishment Democrats are maneuvering to keep progressives from having a chance in the election, that it HAS to be a woman this time, that is HAS to be a minority candidate this time, that anyone who thinks it HAS to be a woman or minority candidate this time is dangerously bonkers, that everyone over/under a certain age can't be trusted...stuff you're already hearing.

Anyway.

Article worth reading for background thoughts: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... c-primary/

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:26 pm
by _honorentheos
I feel I should offer up a TL;DR for the OP as the main point really doesn't come up until the end. So, here's the marquee version of the OP:

In the attempt to ensure the popular vote mob gets to pick the Democrat presidential nominee, the DNC's recent rule changes combined with the crowded and contentious field of candidates almost guarantees the Democrat nominee in 2020 will be selected by superdelegates and backroom deals made at the convention.

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:35 pm
by _honorentheos
Hot link from the OP:

So, what does this mean today? If I were a Republican strategist working at the national level or Russian online troll I'd be doing all I could to make sure Democrats can't stand one another. You know, telling Democrats that the left wing of the party is dangerously bonkers, that establishment Democrats are maneuvering to keep progressives from having a chance in the election, that it HAS to be a woman this time, that is HAS to be a minority candidate this time, that anyone who thinks it HAS to be a woman or minority candidate this time is dangerously bonkers, that everyone over/under a certain age can't be trusted...stuff you're already hearing.

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:20 pm
by _Brackite
And all this is how Trump can end up getting re-elected.

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:36 am
by _Doctor CamNC4Me
honorentheos wrote:Hot link from the OP:

So, what does this mean today? If I were a Republican strategist working at the national level or Russian online troll I'd be doing all I could to make sure Democrats can't stand one another. You know, telling Democrats that the left wing of the party is dangerously bonkers, that establishment Democrats are maneuvering to keep progressives from having a chance in the election, that it HAS to be a woman this time, that is HAS to be a minority candidate this time, that anyone who thinks it HAS to be a woman or minority candidate this time is dangerously bonkers, that everyone over/under a certain age can't be trusted...stuff you're already hearing.


I read and then re-read your OP, and I think I know where you're going with this. At least I think I do.

If I'm a Republican strategist with a troll farm at my back I push HARD the Congresswoman from New York's 14th District

Why?

I'm going to "torch political moderation" and push Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as an "ambitious Liberal visionary" and link her to Bernie. Bernie and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are now indelibly linked at the hip. Her district voted for Obama by a 50-something margin compared to what, his 7 point margin nationally? I read somewhere her neighborhood had higher margins for Democrats in previous Presidential elections, too.

I mean it's not like the guy she replaced was a piece of crap on environmental issues, either. That's her deal, right? He only had something like a 95% super thumbs up rating by environmental groups. Pfft. What a piece of garbage he was, amirite?

So, right now Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the face of the Democratic party. I push her economics hard, I flood Facebook with statements from Rep. Omar's Islamist POV, and I remind voters of Bernie's age and ties to the Soviet Union. As a strategist the guy I don't want winning their primaries is Beto, but right now I'm just interested in sowing discord.

The biggest weakness I see within the party right now isn't platform, but a lack of strategy. We need numbers. I dunno. I seem to recall something called, I dunno, a 50 states strategy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty-state_strategy

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others are so busy focusing on purity-testing our Party they don't see their inevitable defeat in 2020 because they're caught up in Internet echo chambers.

We need to win the Senate AND the Presidency. Remember, without the 60 seats we had, Obamacare wouldn't have passed. Until we have 60 seats again, the Green New Deal, Medicare 4 All, whatever, will never pass. Ever. EVER.

I got news for the Kevin Grahams of the world. The US of fuckin' A ain't the 14th Congressional district, and the Democrats got those 60 seats out of conventionally Conservative states. crap, some of the people who voted for Obamacare sacrificed their political careers, which I don't think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would do. Anyone remember Feingold? I bet EA does, and I don't think it's a stretch to say his support for Obamacare cost him re-election and a potential Presidential run.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will never have an election as close as Feingold's and a dozen other Democrats in the House and Senate. She's running her dumb mouth about getting Democrats primaried out because they're not radical enough. Wtf? This is golden for the Right. You're goddamn right I'd be pushing her and her political puritanism. I want MORE of her ilk ousting level-headed Democrats and then running them against Republicans. Good damned luck with that DNC.

Politically speaking, this is a goddamn damned fantasy. This is not a 50 State Strategy. This is a fairy tale to deflect the fact that Bernie and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have no 50 State Strategy. We need a plan to actually damned win. Wake me up when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has that. Right now it looks like her plan is to Michele Bachmann her way to national stardom while actually harming the Democrats' national chances.

- Doc

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:06 am
by _honorentheos
Lack of party strategy is spot on, though I don't think there is enough beyond "beat Trump!" that forms a cohesive enough identity that could even define the party as a collective capable of a shared strategy. What Republicans did on putting on a unified face backing Trump is ridiculed hard by the left. I don't think it is likely to happen. But yeah, we should buckle in expecting nothing but 24/7 coverage of the extremes of the Party on the part of conservative voices and fake social media accounts. in my opinion anyway. It's a smart play, too. So it's hard to fault it as far as that goes.

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:48 pm
by _EAllusion
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others are so busy focusing on purity-testing our Party they don't see their inevitable defeat in 2020 because they're caught up in Internet echo chambers.

We need to win the Senate AND the Presidency. Remember, without the 60 seats we had, Obamacare wouldn't have passed. Until we have 60 seats again, the Green New Deal, Medicare 4 All, whatever, will never pass. Ever. EVER.
Obamacare passed when the Democrats had 59 seats and only through reconciliation that requires 50 votes.

But yeah, it is hilarious to watch Democrats eat each other alive over minor policy disagreements that are unlikely to pass anyway and will likely be struck down by the Supreme Court if they do. This is mostly overton window shifting because real policies are going to be the ones that can make it through reconciliation or after the filibuster is ended. People like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders know they are engaging overton window shifting, though. They're savvy enough to know what they are doing. Sanders in particular is a very seasoned legislator who bloody well knows he isn't going to pass most of what he talks about. He's trying to shift where the compromise is and demagogue with populist rhetoric. He's been very successful at this in the past several years, so it's hard to fault this strategy.

Where I think you run off the rails here is that most voters don't really care about these fine distinctions in policy. Even Democratic primary voters who say they plan on voting for Bernie, a very left wing group compared to America in general, list Joe Biden as their most common second choice. This tells you how non-ideological their support is. Biden is much further from Sanders than any number of alternatives. The upshot to the non-ideological nature of voting here is these differences are extremely unlikely to be the difference between winning and losing elections. People are going to vote for a Democrat or not primarily as a referendum on the current government. Something like preferring a gradual Medicare buy-in over Medicare for-all is going to move almost zero votes off of any Democrat.

The reason that Republicans went from being fairly cold to Donald Trump's views to being the living avatar of Trumpism is that people mostly fall in line with what their political leadership wants to do and post-hoc rationalize supporting it. So if you are interested in leftwing policy, advocate for that, and when you win for other reasons, your supporters will get behind your leftwing policy because their identity is wrapped up in having supported you. That's half the battle. And if you only get half of what you want somewhere down the road, you'll get more by starting from an extreme spot. Republicans have been incidetnally doing this for decades as their media apparatus pushes them to be more and more extreme.

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:02 pm
by _EAllusion
Looks like Milwaukee is going to be the city that burns in the upcoming 2020 Democratic convention riots.

Sweet.

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:23 pm
by _canpakes
And, in a move almost certain to set fire to the tinder bed of outrage on the part of younger, much more liberal Democrats, the superdelegates will not only be back in the voting but they are exactly the people that have developed the skills and connections for brokering political deals for a candidate.

Well, then those much more liberal Democratic Party voters can all just get mad, and not vote for the Democratic Party candidate. And then they can sit around and moan about Donald Trump for the next four years. So there!

Life in the Democratic Party has always been more like herding cats, as opposed to the blind fealty that characterizes the Republican Party. Maybe Democratic voters need to adopt a little of that attitude displayed by Republican voters.

Re: A Brokered Democratic Convention?

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:41 pm
by _Doctor CamNC4Me
Literally Obama. Do you ever think about what you post?

- Doc