Taking sexism and misogyny seriously

[_Morley]

I did find it disturbing that an OP about male extremism and anti-feminism online spilling over into deadly real life violence ended up where we are.

Cue the famous Atwood paraphrase.

"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."

[_Lemmie]

Regarding the court question, another description of the OP murderer:

Den Hollander is also part of a long line of men who target judges and courts, believing that "the system" is out to get them because they've lost legal battles with ex-wives or have faced charges of violence against women.

https://www.salon.com/2020/07/21/femini ... to-murder/

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl, from the article I just quoted , a quick incel definition:

The most famous of these, of course, was Elliot Rodger, who went on a 2014 shooting spree in Isla Vista, California, killing six people and injuring 14 others, apparently seeking revenge for his perception that "you girls have never been attracted to me."

Rodger identified as an "incel," which is short for "involuntarily celibate" but better describes an ideology of men who believe that, because of feminism, they are being denied sex with women of the "hotness" caliber they believe they deserve.

https://www.salon.com/2020/07/21/femini ... to-murder/

Yes, I read that but why do they choose celibacy?<----blocked headed question. I'm not understanding something here. What's feminism got to do with hotness? Feminists aren't hot? Do they accept that men are also feminists and how does that affect them?

[_Res Ipsa]

When I was a young lawyer, one of my team’s legal assistants had his fiancé and her young daughter murdered by her ex-husband. He had been in prison for beating her. Through a screw up, she didn’t get notice of his release. He stalked her across the country, located her apartment, and shot mother and daughter, then shooting himself. “If I can’t have you, no one can” seems to be a guy thing.

[_Lemmie]

When I was a young lawyer, one of my team’s legal assistants had his fiancé and her young daughter murdered by her ex-husband. He had been in prison for beating her. Through a screw up, she didn’t get notice of his release. He stalked her across the country, located her apartment, and shot mother and daughter, then shooting himself. “If I can’t have you, no one can” seems to be a guy thing.

that's horrifying. He must have been beyond devastated. How do you even recover from something like that?

[_Gunnar]

When I was a young lawyer, one of my team’s legal assistants had his fiancé and her young daughter murdered by her ex-husband. He had been in prison for beating her. Through a screw up, she didn’t get notice of his release. He stalked her across the country, located her apartment, and shot mother and daughter, then shooting himself. “If I can’t have you, no one can” seems to be a guy thing.

Sad indeed. One of the saddest things about that is the idea that this attitude somehow proves the depth of the perpetrator's love for his murdered ex. I remember O. J. Simpson saying, after he was acquitted, that even if he did really kill his wife out of jealousy over her affair, at least it proved that he loved her. Nonsense!! If you really love someone, their happiness and well-being is more important to you than whether you get to have that someone exclusively for yourself. That's how I feel about my own dear wife. I would rather she be happy and fulfilled with some other man than unhappy being with me.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm completely lost here, Lemmie. I must have missed that the previous murder was that of a men's rights activist. If he's a misogynist incel then why would he kill a men's rights activist? Am I not attending to this well enough?

Roy Den Hollander confirmed as suspect in slaying of men's rights activist in California
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/us/roy-d ... index.html

[_Res Ipsa]

When I was a young lawyer, one of my team’s legal assistants had his fiancé and her young daughter murdered by her ex-husband. He had been in prison for beating her. Through a screw up, she didn’t get notice of his release. He stalked her across the country, located her apartment, and shot mother and daughter, then shooting himself. “If I can’t have you, no one can” seems to be a guy thing.

that's horrifying. He must have been beyond devastated. How do you even recover from something like that?

For as long as I knew him, he never did.

[_Res Ipsa]

I'm completely lost here, Lemmie. I must have missed that the previous murder was that of a men's rights activist. If he's a misogynist incel then why would he kill a men's rights activist? Am I not attending to this well enough?

Roy Den Hollander confirmed as suspect in slaying of men's rights activist in California
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/us/roy-d ... index.html

He had a grudge against the guy, who was a competitor.

[_Some Schmo]

Sad indeed. One of the saddest things about that is the idea that this attitude somehow proves the depth of the perpetrator's love for his murdered ex. I remember O. J. Simpson saying, after he was acquitted, that even if he did really kill his wife out of jealousy over her affair, at least it proved that he loved her. Nonsense!! If you really love someone, their happiness and well-being is more important to you than whether you get to have that someone exclusively for yourself. That's how I feel about my own dear wife. I would rather she be happy and fulfilled with some other man than unhappy being with me.

Yes. What these guys are expressing is a deep, abusive codependency, not love. If you say you need your wife rather than want her, that's a warning sign. True love has no requirement to be requited.