CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

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_Gunnar
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CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _Gunnar »

The U.S. Government's CDC, probably the most highly regarded and respected epidemiology and disease tracking organization on earth is in danger of losing its once highly vaunted reputation by Trump's determination to force it into denying sound science that conflicts with what he would rather tell the American people.

Battered by Trump, Robert Redfield of the C.D.C. Faces Pressure to Speak Out
WASHINGTON — Pressure is mounting on the leaders of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — from inside and outside the agency — to speak publicly against the White House’s manhandling of C.D.C. research and public health decisions, with career scientists so demoralized they are talking of quitting if President Trump wins re-election.

The situation came to a boiling point this week when William H. Foege, a giant in public health who led the C.D.C. under Democratic and Republican presidents, called for its current director, Dr. Robert R. Redfield, to “stand up to a bully” — he meant Mr. Trump — even at the risk of being fired.
The C.D.C. was forced, over the serious objections of its own scientists, to post coronavirus testing guidelines that suggested asymptomatic people should not be tested. (Dr. Redfield later walked that back after the resulting uproar, and it was ultimately reversed.) And the White House thwarted a plan, laid out in a directive drafted last month by Dr. Redfield, to require individuals to wear masks on all commercial transportation in the United States.

Supporters of the agency fear the C.D.C.’s reputation will be irrevocably damaged if Dr. Redfield does not start more vigorously defending its science.

“What has happened at C.D.C. has been horrifying to see,” said Dr. Mark Rosenberg, who pioneered public health research into gun violence at the C.D.C. but was pushed out after Republicans in Congress effectively cut off funding for his work. “It’s been terribly demoralizing to people who have been working 16 and 17 hour days for weeks or months at a time while taking on Covid-19.”
“We’ve all learned a terrible lesson,” said one C.D.C. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of being fired. “As much as we want to believe we can operate independently of politics and it’s all about the science, it took just a few months to hobble our ability to steer the course of this pandemic. So we can pretend that the politics don’t matter, but we have been kneecapped.”

Political appointees of the president meddled in the agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports, regarded as the “holiest of the holy” in medical literature. Equally troubling, agency officials say, is that the White House has muzzled the C.D.C., refusing to allow the nation’s leading public health experts to talk directly and regularly to the American people — a critical component of any successful infectious disease response.
Most current and former C.D.C. officials acknowledge that Dr. Redfield is in a terrible position, working for a president who has declared all-out war on his agency and who regards its scientists as members of a so-called deep state out to get him. Unlike Dr. Fauci, he is a political appointee and lacks Civil Service protections. And unlike the F.D.A. commissioner, he cannot turn to a powerful industry constituency like pharmaceuticals to back him up.

Some say it would be unwise for him to step down, for fear of his successor.

“What happens if 50 of the top scientists at C.D.C. say, ‘We’ve had it, we’re leaving?’ Does that leave the country better off or worse off?” asked Dr. Jeffrey Koplan, who served as the C.D.C. director under Presidents Bill Clinton and George with. Bush and regularly met Dr. Redfield for lunch before the pandemic. “I suspect that Dr. Redfield is asking himself the same question.”

When he arrived at the C.D.C., one scientist there said, many in the agency were relieved. They had feared Mr. Trump might appoint someone openly hostile to science, or an opponent of vaccines. But Dr. Redfield had no experience in public health or in running a large government agency like the C.D.C., with 11,000 employees. Nor is he an especially good communicator.

“I don’t think he was the leader for this agency at this point in time,” said Dr. Georges C. Benjamin, the executive director of the American Public Health Association, who has known Dr. Redfield since they served together in the Army decades ago. “I don’t know if anybody could have been.”

Now, less than a month from the election, the question is whether the C.D.C. can recover. Dr. Foege refused to allow the possibility that it could not.

“They have to recover,” he said. “The world needs a gold standard in public health.”
I think the main takeoff point is that our CDC has, by most accounts, been the world standard in public health, and now, thanks to Trump's disdain for science and facts he deems as inconvenient to him, we are in danger of losing that, perhaps irrevocably.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_subgenius
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _subgenius »

Gunnar wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:42 am
The U.S. Government's CDC, probably the most highly regarded and respected epidemiology and disease tracking organization on earth is in danger of losing its once highly vaunted reputation by Trump's determination to force it into denying sound science that conflicts with what he would rather tell the American people.
If the CDC can be bullied as you describe here then the CDC does not deserve to be "highly regarded and respected"...which might be a necessary correction in consideration for your choice in using the word "vaunted" to describe the CDCs reputation.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Chap
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _Chap »

subgenius wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:26 pm
Gunnar wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:42 am
The U.S. Government's CDC, probably the most highly regarded and respected epidemiology and disease tracking organization on earth is in danger of losing its once highly vaunted reputation by Trump's determination to force it into denying sound science that conflicts with what he would rather tell the American people.
If the CDC can be bullied as you describe here then the CDC does not deserve to be "highly regarded and respected"...which might be a necessary correction in consideration for your choice in using the word "vaunted" to describe the CDCs reputation.
Yeah. I mean, they're just a bunch of losers ...
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Gunnar
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _Gunnar »

subgenius wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:26 pm
Gunnar wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:42 am
The U.S. Government's CDC, probably the most highly regarded and respected epidemiology and disease tracking organization on earth is in danger of losing its once highly vaunted reputation by Trump's determination to force it into denying sound science that conflicts with what he would rather tell the American people.
If the CDC can be bullied as you describe here then the CDC does not deserve to be "highly regarded and respected"...which might be a necessary correction in consideration for your choice in using the word "vaunted" to describe the CDCs reputation.
In other words, you seem to be arguing that anyone or anything that Trump succeeds in destroying or undermining deserved to be destroyed or undermined in the first place. That is the philosophy of bullies and tyrants. The bully is always in the right, as long as he manages to get away with it. Right?
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_subgenius
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _subgenius »

Gunnar wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:14 pm
In other words, ...
Nope, the words i posted were hella sufficient on the point. Not sure what you're trying to repackage.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Themis
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _Themis »

Gunnar wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:14 pm
subgenius wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:26 pm


If the CDC can be bullied as you describe here then the CDC does not deserve to be "highly regarded and respected"...which might be a necessary correction in consideration for your choice in using the word "vaunted" to describe the CDCs reputation.
In other words, you seem to be arguing that anyone or anything that Trump succeeds in destroying or undermining deserved to be destroyed or undermined in the first place. That is the philosophy of bullies and tyrants. The bully is always in the right, as long as he manages to get away with it. Right?
Subby is just Trolling as usual. You notice he does not make an argument to defend Trump's political interfering with the CDC, but tries to distract with a dumb-ass statement. He does this because he knows what Trump is doing is wrong.
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_subgenius
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _subgenius »

Themis wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:46 pm

Subby is just Trolling as usual. You notice he does not make an argument to defend Trump's political interfering with the CDC, but tries to distract with a dumb-ass statement. He does this because he knows what Trump is doing is wrong.
You guys love to scream troll, but its clear you don't really know what that word means and that being contradicted is just plain ole uncomfortable for ya.
But
I don't have to defend Trump, because my post was a whole different topic. Which in lieu of you actually offering a rebuttal you opt for the reliable messenger attack.
Nevertheless, if all the accolades that Gunnar piled up are true then the OP is unwarranted because the CDC would be unassailable, especially by Trump - right?
my bad, i know words hurt yer skull but it seemed appropriate to inject thinking into a thread you were in.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Gunnar
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _Gunnar »

subgenius wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:57 pm
You guys love to scream troll, but its clear you don't really know what that word means and that being contradicted is just plain ole uncomfortable for ya.
From The Free Dictionary by Fairfax.
Troll: To post inflammatory or irrelevant material on (an electronic forum) to provoke responses.
v.intr.

That describes what you do repeatedly and incessantly to a T. If you can't see that, then you are the one who doesn't really know what the word means. More likely, though, is that you understand full well that that is what you are doing!
I don't have to defend Trump,
Yet you do, repeatedly and unrelentingly. Why? No one else currently in government is so demonstrably and determinedly corrupt and dishonest as Trump. It is amazing to me that you still manage to blind yourself to that increasingly obvious fact. What about him do you find at all admirable?
because my post was a whole different topic.
What, pray tell, was that topic?
Which in lieu of you actually offering a rebuttal you opt for the reliable messenger attack.
What in the hell did you mean by that?
Nevertheless, if all the accolades that Gunnar piled up are true then the OP is unwarranted because the CDC would be unassailable, especially by Trump - right?
In other words, if it is at all possible for Trump to assail something (or the people involved in it, whom trump has the power to nominate or fire), it must not be worth defending? What a nonsensical (not to mention, trollish) assertion!
my bad, i know words hurt yer skull but it seemed appropriate to inject thinking trolling into a thread you were in.
Fixed it for you. You're welcome!
Last edited by Guest on Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_Themis
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _Themis »

subgenius wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:57 pm
I don't have to defend Trump, because my post was a whole different topic.
No, you always are trying to defend Trump through trolling. In this case by trying to distract from Trump's corrupt behavior which is the topic of the thread to anything else, even if they are dumb-ass statements that are meaningless.
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_Gunnar
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Re: CDC Scientists and Doctors Bullied by Trump

Post by _Gunnar »

Themis wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:50 am
subgenius wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:57 pm
I don't have to defend Trump, because my post was a whole different topic.
No, you always are trying to defend Trump through trolling. In this case by trying to distract from Trump's corrupt behavior which is the topic of the thread to anything else, even if they are dumb-ass statements that are meaningless.
Right! Much more succinctly said than I managed to do. :smile:
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
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