Page 1 of 3
Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:32 am
by _moksha
‘Through this order, President Trump has declared war on the professional civil service by giving himself the authority to fill the government with his political cronies who will pledge their unwavering loyalty to him, not to America’
The range of workers who could be stripped of protections and placed in this new category is vast, experts say, and could include most of the non-partisan experts — scientists, doctors, lawyers, economists — whose work to advise and inform policymakers is supposed to be done in a way that is fact-driven and devoid of politics.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tr ... 55692.html
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:57 pm
by _Gunnar
That's terrible! The so called "deep state" that Trump is so anxious to dismantle consists of our most competent, dedicated and experienced professional civil servants who are absolutely essential to the efficient running of our government and infrastructure. They are the last people who ought to be selected mainly on the basis of partisanship loyalty to any particular party or person. Dismissing them because they aren't blindly loyal to any one person or party, regardless of whatever other qualifications they might have, would be as stupid as dismissing the most competent available pilot for, say, Airforce One, merely because he or she did not happen to be a registered Republican. I very seriously doubt anyone dumb enough to be a diehard, rabid Trump supporter would ever have acquired the competence to be safely trusted with piloting Airforce One.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:55 pm
by _moksha
This is intended to weaken the competency of America and perhaps push the Kremlin agenda. If Trump remains in office, it will ease the transition to a complete dictatorship.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:29 pm
by _subgenius
So you guys really don't read the stuff you link - go figure.
"..strip civil service protections from a broad swath of career civil servants if it is decided that they are in “confidential, policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating positions"
...
If , to you, this concludes with "dictator" then you might actually be too dumb to vote...meaning, you can't literally perform the voting action due to mental incompetence.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:21 pm
by _canpakes
subgenius wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:29 pm
So you guys really don't read the stuff you link - go figure.
..strip civil service protections from a broad swath of career civil servants if it is decided that they are in “confidential, policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating positions"
...
If , to you, this concludes with "dictator" then you might actually be too dumb to vote...meaning, you can't literally perform the voting action due to mental incompetence.
Moksha and Gunnar seem to understand the problem better than you pretend.
One might ask (1) what the
precise criteria is for determining the new classification, and (2) why it’s deemed necessary now. I wouldn’t expect that you’d be capable of venturing an answer. Perhaps that places
you squarely within the class outlined in your second paragraph.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:17 pm
by _Res Ipsa
canpakes wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:21 pm
subgenius wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:29 pm
So you guys really don't read the stuff you link - go figure.
..strip civil service protections from a broad swath of career civil servants if it is decided that they are in “confidential, policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating positions"
...
If , to you, this concludes with "dictator" then you might actually be too dumb to vote...meaning, you can't literally perform the voting action due to mental incompetence.
Moksha and Gunnar seem to understand the problem better than you pretend.
One might ask (1) what the
precise criteria is for determining the new classification, and (2) why it’s deemed necessary now. I wouldn’t expect that you’d be capable of venturing an answer. Perhaps that places
you squarely within the class outlined in your second paragraph.
The metric is quite simple: if a position is capable of determining facts that contradict whatever Trump declares the facts to be, the position is political and should be filled with a political sycophant, regardless of actual qualifications. If Trump holds up three fingers and says he is holding up two, anyone in the executive branch who says three is playing politics and must be replaced by anyone willing to say “two.”
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:36 am
by _subgenius
canpakes wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:21 pm
subgenius wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:29 pm
So you guys really don't read the stuff you link - go figure.
..strip civil service protections from a broad swath of career civil servants if it is decided that they are in “confidential, policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating positions"
...
If , to you, this concludes with "dictator" then you might actually be too dumb to vote...meaning, you can't literally perform the voting action due to mental incompetence.
Moksha and Gunnar seem to understand the problem better than you pretend.
One might ask (1) what the
precise criteria is for determining the new classification, and (2) why it’s deemed necessary now. I wouldn’t expect that you’d be capable of venturing an answer. Perhaps that places
you squarely within the class outlined in your second paragraph.
Again, still not reading the citation and your post speaks from a position of ignorance.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:03 am
by _canpakes
subgenius wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:36 am
canpakes wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:21 pm
Moksha and Gunnar seem to understand the problem better than you pretend.
One might ask (1) what the
precise criteria is for determining the new classification, and (2) why it’s deemed necessary now. I wouldn’t expect that you’d be capable of venturing an answer. Perhaps that places
you squarely within the class outlined in your second paragraph.
Again, still not reading the citation and your post speaks from a position of ignorance.
So you’re not capable of venturing an answer.
As usual, you are again the best example of whatever insult you think you’re lobbing.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:46 pm
by _subgenius
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:17 pm
The metric is quite simple: if a position is capable of determining facts that contradict whatever Trump declares the facts to be, the position is political and should be filled with a political sycophant, regardless of actual qualifications. If Trump holds up three fingers and says he is holding up two, anyone in the executive branch who says three is playing politics and must be replaced by anyone willing to say “two.”
But this order is not exclusive to Trump ad infinitum. If Biden is duly elected then the same would apply. I just believe exception should be taken for the absurd conclusion that this equals "dictator" - which has been a charge levied at almost every policy Trump has ever implemented.
Furthermore, that is not what the order is "like". It is best to dial your emotion back and review things as they are and not as you imagine them to be. You guys immediately insist on viewing all things through, a usually hyperbolic, lens of "its like..." because you are so desperate to mold reality into the imaginary.
The cited article even claims that Trump has already embedded "loyal" employees well before this order - which counters your boogey-man theory. The underlying, rather, the obvious reality is that Trump recognizes that there are civil servants who do not actually "serve" the civil but serve their own political goals even if that undermines whatever the current administration's goals are at the time - which is obviously a problem, and it is actually the point of this order.
Re: Trump Sabotages America
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:17 pm
by _Chap
subgenius wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:46 pm
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:17 pm
The metric is quite simple: if a position is capable of determining facts that contradict whatever Trump declares the facts to be, the position is political and should be filled with a political sycophant, regardless of actual qualifications. If Trump holds up three fingers and says he is holding up two, anyone in the executive branch who says three is playing politics and must be replaced by anyone willing to say “two.”
... Trump recognizes that there are civil servants who do not actually "serve" the civil but serve their own political goals even if that undermines whatever the current administration's goals are at the time - which is obviously a problem, and it is actually the point of this order.
Nope. This is Donald Trump, for goodness sake.
Back in 2016, there might have been some room for doubt about it, but we've seen him in operation for four years now, and he makes no secret of how he thinks and operates. It's become clear that Res Ipsa has it right: Trump wants 'loyal' civil servants who, whatever technical, scientific or military expertise they may have, will keep their traps shut when telling the truth might embarrass him.