Terrifying Article in USA Today

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Gunnar
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Terrifying Article in USA Today

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What if the Jan. 6 insurrection had succeeded in illegally installing Trump?
What if the coup attempt had succeeded? What if the election results had been overturned? What if Donald Trump were illegally installed for a second term as president of the United States?

It could have happened several different ways. Capitol Police officer Eugene Goodman might have been out sick last Jan. 6 and not in place to divert the mob away from fleeing and hiding members of Congress. The Trumpist horde could have found their way to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Vice President Mike Pence or other members of Congress and killed or injured them.

Had they done so, it might have resulted in postponing the certification of the election and in the ensuing time, despite whatever national outrage was triggered, the former president and his supporters might have engineered politically motivated challenges in key states throwing the election’s results into question.

Do you doubt that? Then your memory has faded much in the past year. Because a coup attempt occurred, five people died, more than 140 police officers were injured, for the first time in American history we did not have a peaceful transfer of power, and the backlash with the leadership and rank and file of the GOP was shockingly minimal.

Just hours after the attack, 147 Republican members of Congress voted to object to the election results – although there was zero evidence of wrongful outcomes in electoral counts. Even with massive evidence of Trump’s central role in promoting the uprising, only 10 House Republicans voted to impeach him. Just seven voted to convict him in the Senate.

What is more, within weeks of the assault, the leadership and rank and file of the GOP fell into line around the continued promotion of the Big Lie and the continued defense of Trump as their party’s standard-bearer.

A recent poll from the University of Massachusetts Amherst reveals that 71% of Republicans don’t believe Biden was rightfully elected president. Only 6% of Republicans said Biden was “definitely” the winner. About 80% of Republicans called the Jan. 6 attack “a protest.”

Another poll from the Washington Post-University of Maryland showed 34% of Americans believed violent action against the government was at times justified.

This combination of gullibility or willingness to deny demonstrable facts to advance a political goal suggests that another “what if” scenario also came precariously close to succeeding.

This is the plot we are learning was being pursued by Trump supporters to get the certification stalled by peaceful means while state challenges could be pursued and – with the help of GOP legislatures, governors and judges – won. In a new memoir, Trump White House adviser Peter Navarro calls the effort “a perfect plan” and has stated, “We had over 100 congressmen committed to it.” He called the plan “the Green Bay Sweep.”

We do know that the effort came very close to success. For example, one key element was for Vice President Pence to refuse to certify the election results, sending them back to the states. Pence reportedly struggled with this issue, wanted to find a way to make it work, before being dissuaded by former Vice President Dan Quayle. What if Pence had ignored the advice?

Had the election results been flipped, it would have been a stunning blow to democracy in the United States. But it is not hard to imagine that within weeks after stealing the election, Trump would have moved quickly to consolidate power and protect himself from challenges. How do we know? He had senior officials in the Justice Department like Jeffrey Clark working with him to flip the election, according to The New York Times, and who is said to have even schemed to remove an acting attorney general not deemed loyal enough to Trump.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Trump, a man who has joked about being president for life and envying the power of dictators, would have shredded the Constitution and likely have had the support of much of the Republican Party as he did it.

Scary as the answers to those “what if” questions are, perhaps even scarier is that today – despite Biden having won the election with more votes than any presidential candidate in U.S. history, despite Trump having lost more than 60 court challenges to the election, despite failed recount efforts, despite public knowledge of unfounded and likely illegal attempts to pressure state officials to change their vote counts, despite the coup attempt and becoming the only American president ever impeached twice – the attempt to undermine democracy is continuing unabated.

Election laws are being changed that will make it harder for tens of millions of Americans – often minority voters and others who tend to vote Democratic – to vote. States are shifting decision-making power in contested elections to partisan officials.

And while President Biden has said that he was willing to support filibuster reform to ensure voting rights are protected – a crucial move given the threat – it is far from a sure thing that will happen.

What is more, a recent poll shows that Trump vs. Biden rematch in 2024 would be a dead heat.

The attempted coup is not over. The threat to democracy not only remains, it has also proved to be shockingly resilient. Its advocates are as shameless as they are resourceful. And this means that the most instructive aspect of “what if” questions might be that they remind us of what could lie ahead for us all if we are not more vigilant – and if we do not fight as so many of our ancestors have done to preserve and enhance democracy in America.
It appears that we barely escaped, by the skin of our teeth, losing our democracy and winding up being ruled by a ruthless would-be tyrant with the apparent goal of somehow getting himself installed as dictator for life, much like Kim Jong Un, whom Trump obviously envies, and for whom he has openly expressed admiration. The danger of that happening has not yet passed, and may even be stronger now than it was on Jan 6, 2021.
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization.
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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And so far Merrick Garland is not pursuing criminal prosecutions with nearly the urgency required. We continue to sleepwalk while the republic is being dissolved before our eyes. The whole situation feels surreal but is all too perilous and real. We could very well lose our cherished Constitutional government and freedoms because the GOP essentially lost its collective mind.

To think that Donald Trump, a tabloid joke, was the trigger.

You can’t have a functional republic when 30% of the electorate openly supports authoritarian leadership and one of the two major parties is complicit to the point of allowing the would-be tyrant to lead their party and go through the nomination process after having staged an unsuccessful coup. Trump has a completely unhinged and insane core of followers.

The other night I watched a CNN clip in which a former Bush admin guy conceded that Trump violated his oath of office on January 6, but at the same time saying he agreed with all of Trump’s policies. As though you can separate January 6 from every other instance of corruption, broken law, and violation of presidential norms. His answer to the problem of Trump is to just send him back through the nomination process to let his party decide!

This is why criminal prosecution has to happen now. The GOP is incapable of saving a republic it no longer believes in. They are ready for authoritarian government under one loser or another. They are only preparing to see which one will be installed in power against the will of the majority of the electorate. In other words, it is probably too late for the republic, but it may be that Trump can be kept out of the “presidency” at the very least.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:25 am
This is why criminal prosecution has to happen now. The GOP is incapable of saving a republic it no longer believes in. They are ready for authoritarian government under one loser or another. They are only preparing to see which one will be installed in power against the will of the majority of the electorate. In other words, it is probably too late for the republic, but it may be that Trump can be kept out of the “presidency” at the very least.
This is one of the scariest parts. They are trying their darndest (and seem to be succeeding) to alter and rig the electoral process so that they will get their way even "against the will of the majority of the electorate." It is appalling that a majority of registered Republicans seem to have been duped into going along with this excrement! Even if as little as 10% of Republicans alone, not to mention the entire electorate, were willing to go along with this, it would still be appalling to me! Yet, according to the article:
A recent poll from the University of Massachusetts Amherst reveals that 71% of Republicans don’t believe Biden was rightfully elected president. Only 6% of Republicans said Biden was “definitely” the winner. About 80% of Republicans called the Jan. 6 attack “a protest.”
and
Another poll from the Washington Post-University of Maryland showed 34% of Americans believed violent action against the government was at times justified.
As you said:
You can’t have a functional republic when 30% of the electorate openly supports authoritarian leadership and one of the two major parties is complicit to the point of allowing the would-be tyrant to lead their party and go through the nomination process after having staged an unsuccessful coup. Trump has a completely unhinged and insane core of followers.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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Merrick Garland's speech today was encouraging. I hope he follows up and appropriately and justly acts on the evidence as it becomes clear.
In a sweeping speech marking the one-year anniversary of the Capitol attack, Attorney General Merrick Garland pushed back on criticism that the Justice Department's January 6 probe has not been aggressive enough, while signaling that no one would be off limits as prosecutors "followed the facts."
"The actions we have taken thus far will not be our last," Garland said. "The Justice Department remains committed to holding all January 6th perpetrators, at any level, accountable under law -- whether they were present that day or were otherwise criminally responsible for the assault on our democracy."
We all needed to hear this. especially the perpetrators of the gargantuan lie that the election was stolen from Trump and the violence motivated by that lie.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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After Trump Aide’s Admission On Air, New Heat On Coup Plot
Days before the anniversary of the MAGA insurrection at the Capitol, former Trump aide Peter Navarro admitted to the plot to overturn the election on The Beat. His combative interview has made headlines around the globe, and even Trump ally Steve Bannon has weighed in, saying he and Navarro "are unreasonable" men. MSNBC’s Chief Legal Correspondent Ari Melber discusses the significance of Navarro's admission with former SDNY prosecutor John Flannery. (This segment is from MSNBC’s “The Beat with Ari Melber," a news show covering politics, law, and culture airing nightly at 6pm ET on MSNBC bit.ly/thebeatwithari).
The hubris and arrogance of these people is incredible! Even after openly admitting their nefarious and illegal scheme to overturn the election, they are so certain that they are above the law, that they will get away with it, and that they will somehow not only get away with it, but acquire hero status for their attempt!

Ari's best line to Navarro:
The Constitution was designed to stop people like you!
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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Fox and the Big Lie Part I

Part ll

This two part series does an excellent exposé about Rupert Murdoch and his news network's role in creating Trump's Presidency and warning how we are still in danger. I wish the American major TV broadcast networks had the integrity and courage to broadcast this series nationally in prime time for all Americans to see.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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What I can't help wondering and worrying about is: suppose Trump is deservedly indicted and brought to trial for his crimes, what is the likelihood of successfully seating a jury that will unanimously agree on either Trump's guilt or innocence? I am inclined to think that unless there is a massive shift in prevailing public attitudes toward Trump, any conceivable trial or trials of Trump for his crimes will, at best, end up with a hung jury situation. Will it be possible to seat 12 jurors that both the prosecution and defense will agree on that can all be relied upon to objectively base their decision only on the clearly demonstrable evidence presented?
Last edited by Gunnar on Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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Gunnar wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:52 am
What I can't help wondering and worrying about is: suppose Trump is deservedly indicted and brought to trial for his crimes, ...
The second American Civil war will probably begin during this trial. It will be short due to the Trumpians holding the preponderance of weapons. That will mark the formal ending of the United States and the beginning of the new fascist regime.
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Re: Terrifying Article in USA Today

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Moksha wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:01 am
Gunnar wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:52 am
What I can't help wondering and worrying about is: suppose Trump is deservedly indicted and brought to trial for his crimes, ...
The second American Civil war will probably begin during this trial. It will be short due to the Trumpians holding the preponderance of weapons. That will mark the formal ending of the United States and the beginning of the new fascist regime.
That is what I am afraid of! I suspect that much of the democratic administration is afraid of the same thing.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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