Guns in America

[K Graham]

So I've been on this planet for almost 52 years, and in all my life I've only known 4 people who were killed by guns. I've stated this in the past, that none of those people died because they were gunned down in a criminal act. They were all killed in acts of stupidity. Today I'm sad to say I now know 5 people who've died by gunshot, and this time it was a suicide.

A friend of mine I've known since 1997 when we were roommates reached out to me on Facebook back in 2010 when I moved back to the States. He actually posted on this forum sporadically and briefly, he went by the moniker Mledbetter I think, if that rings any bells. Anyway, about six months ago he called me up and said he was fed up with American healthcare. His wife had been suffering chronic pain and was bedridden for two months straight. He took her to see just about every kind of specialist you could think of and it got to the point where they couldn't figure out why she was in pain, and one doctor accused her of just flat out making it up. He said he was done and wanted to get "off the grid" and so he made a plan to move to Alaska with his wife and four children. They're ages 5, 8, 11 and 14. This was about six months ago, and then last week I get a call from him from Fairbanks, telling me that his wife had passed and that he had already moved to Alaska with his kids and he cannot come back to Georgia ever again because it is just too hard on him and the kids. He called because he wants me to sell his house for him. At first he didn't tell me how it happened and I just assumed it was her medical condition that worsened. Today he called me and told me she took a gun and shot herself in the head. It was his gun. He said he usually keeps it locked up, but for some reason it wasn't at that time. He and all the kids were home when this happened.

He said she mentioned having suicidal thoughts before, but she assured him she could never go through with it because the kids would never forgive her. He also said she had been put on a drug called Lexipro just the week prior to this.

https://www.jacksonprogress-argus.com/o ... 76907.html

This is such a sad story on so many levels. I believe she had suffered from some kind of mental disease that wasn't properly diagnosed. But I cannot help but believe she'd still be alive today had she not had easy access to a gun. Sure, we can assume she'd kill her self in some other way, but guns make suicides quick and painless.

So anyway, that's five people I've known in my lifetime who have died by gunshot, and all of them were easily preventable if they weren't so wrapped up in a culture that loves guns.

[Dr. Shades]

So anyway, that's five people I've known in my lifetime who have died by gunshot, and all of them were easily preventable if they weren't so wrapped up in a culture that loves guns.

Do we blame the culture, or do we blame those who voluntarily participate in the culture?

[Res Ipsa]

Damn, Kevin. I'm really sorry. That's tragic.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

So anyway, that's five people I've known in my lifetime who have died by gunshot, and all of them were easily preventable if they weren't so wrapped up in a culture that loves guns.

Do we blame the culture, or do we blame those who voluntarily participate in the culture?

Why not both? We can throw in a lack of access to affordable healthcare to the mix. We could do better, but we choose otherwise. It sucks.

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

Yes, I most definitely do remember him. I'm so sorry to hear about this. I don't think I have more that I want to comment on here just now.

[Marcus]

I'm so sorry, Kevin. That's awful. I hope he and his kids have some help in Alaska. That can be a lonely place.

[Physics Guy]

So I've been on this planet for almost 52 years, and in all my life I've only known 4 people who were killed by guns. I've stated this in the past, that none of those people died because they were gunned down in a criminal act. They were all killed in acts of stupidity. Today I'm sad to say I now know 5 people who've died by gunshot, and this time it was a suicide. ...
So anyway, that's five people I've known in my lifetime who have died by gunshot, and all of them were easily preventable if they weren't so wrapped up in a culture that loves guns.

I'm a couple of years older than 52 and I've only lived maybe 12 of those years in the United States. As best I can recall I don't know for sure of anyone who died from gunshots. I can think of one case that's a maybe but I don't know enough details. Apart from that possibility, I don't think I even really know anyone who has known anyone who died of gunshots. Maybe I do and they just haven't told me, but shooting deaths are not on my radar as something that happens to people I know.

Between military service, hunting, and family members with gun collections, I've been around firearms most of my life. They've never seemed glamorous. They've been like chainsaws or blowtorches, dangerous tools that have to be handled correctly. The collectors I've known were gun geeks, not gun lovers. I can't think of anyone I've ever known who loved guns.

Maybe I've just been lucky, so far at least. What my experience leads me to think, though, is that guns themselves really are not the problem. There does seem something disturbing about American culture and guns. I've always just thought it was a weird American thing. Perhaps it's worse than I thought.

Has K Graham just been unlucky or is one gunshot death every decade within one's circle of acquaintances really par for the American course?

[Binger]

So I've been on this planet for almost 52 years, and in all my life I've only known 4 people who were killed by guns. I've stated this in the past, that none of those people died because they were gunned down in a criminal act. They were all killed in acts of stupidity. Today I'm sad to say I now know 5 people who've died by gunshot, and this time it was a suicide. ...
So anyway, that's five people I've known in my lifetime who have died by gunshot, and all of them were easily preventable if they weren't so wrapped up in a culture that loves guns.

I'm a couple of years older than 52 and I've only lived maybe 12 of those years in the United States. As best I can recall I don't know for sure of anyone who died from gunshots. I can think of one case that's a maybe but I don't know enough details. Apart from that possibility, I don't think I even really know anyone who has known anyone who died of gunshots. Maybe I do and they just haven't told me, but shooting deaths are not on my radar as something that happens to people I know.

Between military service, hunting, and family members with gun collections, I've been around firearms most of my life. They've never seemed glamorous. They've been like chainsaws or blowtorches, dangerous tools that have to be handled correctly. The collectors I've known were gun geeks, not gun lovers. I can't think of anyone I've ever known who loved guns.

Maybe I've just been lucky, so far at least. What my experience leads me to think, though, is that guns themselves really are not the problem. There does seem something disturbing about American culture and guns. I've always just thought it was a weird American thing. Perhaps it's worse than I thought.

Has K Graham just been unlucky or is one gunshot death every decade within one's circle of acquaintances really par for the American course?

This question deserves the fair and honest answer: "it depends." It depends on what you consider to be an acquaintance. Is the wife of an online friend an acquaintance? Is an online forum person that you only know from a fake name and a cartoon an acquaintance? If the Kevin Bacon rules apply, we all have the same number of acquaintances die from guns, because we all have the same acquaintances, eventually.

There is no comfortable piece of the OP and the death of a parent. None. But goddamn, do we really need to look at this situation where a dude had a gun, that he normally keeps locked up, but for some "unknown" reason or circumstance or hope or arrangement or drunkenness was not locked up, and we have to ignore the responsibility part?

This woman was in bed for months with pain, and he left a gun lying around loaded. He knew she was on the brink, and he left a loaded gun accessible. This situation was so wonky but he took his family off the grid and out of state when his wife needed medical attention? He had a home, possibly with equity, and he was running because he wanted his wife, who was clearly not well, to have less healthcare?

Is it wrong for me to blame or question the parties involved? It is disgusting, very disgusting. The point is that it is disgusting. So then, how is it any less disgusting to blame parties that were not involved? Blame, shame, game, repeat. It is all a game to make us feel better because we are better and whatever icky things we are feeling, are not our fault. Woman shoots herself with a loaded gun her husband left out, it was not my fault that this happened and this feels gross, I need to blame someone for these feelings that are not my fault. I blame Trump, Rogan, Tucker and Gadianton's RWF, now I feel better.

[Marcus]

So I've been on this planet for almost 52 years, and in all my life I've only known 4 people who were killed by guns. I've stated this in the past, that none of those people died because they were gunned down in a criminal act. They were all killed in acts of stupidity. Today I'm sad to say I now know 5 people who've died by gunshot, and this time it was a suicide. ...
So anyway, that's five people I've known in my lifetime who have died by gunshot, and all of them were easily preventable if they weren't so wrapped up in a culture that loves guns.

I'm a couple of years older than 52 and I've only lived maybe 12 of those years in the United States. As best I can recall I don't know for sure of anyone who died from gunshots. I can think of one case that's a maybe but I don't know enough details. Apart from that possibility, I don't think I even really know anyone who has known anyone who died of gunshots. Maybe I do and they just haven't told me, but shooting deaths are not on my radar as something that happens to people I know.

Between military service, hunting, and family members with gun collections, I've been around firearms most of my life. They've never seemed glamorous. They've been like chainsaws or blowtorches, dangerous tools that have to be handled correctly. The collectors I've known were gun geeks, not gun lovers. I can't think of anyone I've ever known who loved guns.

Maybe I've just been lucky, so far at least. What my experience leads me to think, though, is that guns themselves really are not the problem. There does seem something disturbing about American culture and guns. I've always just thought it was a weird American thing. Perhaps it's worse than I thought.

Has K Graham just been unlucky or is one gunshot death every decade within one's circle of acquaintances really par for the American course?

I wouldn't call it unlucky, but I think you're right about it being a type or subset of 'American culture and guns.'

A few more gun deaths are on my radar, but only because I have strong ties to families in NYC where being "on the job" is very common (on the job= firefighter or police), and the deaths of fellow officers are mourned together.

Outside of that, no deaths from guns. I have a great-aunt who lives upstate and keeps a .22 on her window sill to keep the non-indigenous birds from plundering the bird nests of her favorite native birds (as she indignantly tells me), a fancy-ass business acquaintance in Manhattan, dressed to the 9s every day, who still takes a week off to grub around and hunt bear in Utah with his family whenever they snag a permit, a mechanic in Manhattan with an ankle holster holding a gun he has never once shot but will not be caught dead without, a SIL who is a neighborhood mom during the week who NEVER mentions her gun --but who is also a week-end kick-ass ringer who competes with the county Sheriff's department NRA team to bring their scores up, a sibling who shoots skeet in the Pacific Northwest but won't let his children go until they are 18 and get their firearms safety merit badge, etc., etc., etc.

Your point about the non-glamorization of guns is a good one. They are tools, not trophies.

So anyway, that's five people I've known in my lifetime who have died by gunshot, and all of them were easily preventable if they weren't so wrapped up in a culture that loves guns.

That's heartbreaking, Kevin. Your point about ease of access in a moment of despair is exactly right. Best wishes to your friend and his kids.

[K Graham]

This question deserves the fair and honest answer: "it depends." It depends on what you consider to be an acquaintance. Is the wife of an online friend an acquaintance? Is an online forum person that you only know from a fake name and a cartoon an acquaintance?

He and I were roommates back in the mid-90's. I've known him for roughly 25 years now. When we moved back from Brazil in 2011 he and his wife Kourtney brought their two boys over to our new home. He and I weren't in constant contact. We did attend an Atlanta Falcons football game sometime in 2009, and every year or so he'll call wanting to meet to go see a new movie. We were supposed to go see Dune but ended up just watching it for free on HBO Max. The last time we did anything together was to go see Thor: Ragnarok a few years ago. He lives about an hour away otherwise we'd likely hang out more. He only came to this forum because I invited him many years ago.

When I say I know of five people who have died from gunshot, I'm not talking about people I only heard about from rumors. I'm talking about people I've personally known or people who were close relatives.

The year was 1984 or 85. Jeff Bradley was a friend of mine from school, we were the same age. His older brother Wade was a senior at the time. Jeff was a smaller, weaker kid who was often bullied and occasionally Wade would find out about it and protect him. Jeff doesn't show up for school for a few weeks. We later find out that Jeff had accidentally killed his big brother in a hunting accident. Wade had just received a scholarship to Auburn University.

When my siblings and I used to visit our Dad who was stationed at Ft. Stewart back in the mid 80's, he would take us out to St. Catharine's Sound where we'd catch bonnet head sharks and crabs. He would always invite this family of three to come with us. Lou, Biergan and their son Christian. Christian was maybe 8 years old at the time. We were older than him but we developed a relationship just from spending so much time with him during summers. So about ten years later my Dad and I are talking about the whereabouts of Lou and his family, and he told me Christian had just been accepted to the Air Force Academy on a full ride scholarship. But that he also died in a hunting accident somewhere in North Georgia. Forensics determined he fell down a ravine at which point the gun went off and killed him instantly.

Around 1996 I was dating this Mormon girl Kiersten. She and her family lived out in the boonies, and her Dad was a typical Mormon male who read a lot of Cleon Skousen and would talk about the coming apocalypse. "Buy silver, not gold" he always said. Because when the economy crashes soon and the Rockefellers take over the government, the only currency will be pieces of silver. Gold would be too valuable for every day transactions he said. Anyway, he struck me as an odd person to say the least but he was extremely kind to me, treating me like a son. He worked on my car for free and wouldn't accept payment as long as I worked on it with him. He had three daughters, two boys and there were guns hanging on just about every wall in the house. I remember working on the car in the dirt driveway and there were several unspent shells just sitting on the ground. So, one day Kiersten tells me that she used to have three brothers, but one had died. I probed more into it and she said he died in a shooting accident. I thought it was probably hunting related, but no. Apparently the father had his gun in a vise while cleaning it and the son startled him. He stuck his head around the opened door and said "Boo," at which point the gun fired and killed her brother instantly. He was only 9 years old at the time. She recalled how her Dad was just blank. No emotion. Nothing. Just sitting in the back seat of the cop car. It was a horrible story to hear, but what really upset me the most was that even after such a tragic accident happening within the walls of his own home, it did not deter his love for guns. They were everywhere. My question was how many of his children had to accidentally die at his hands before he realizes that maybe the costs of owning 200 guns in a 1800 sq ft home isn't worth whatever benefits you think you're getting out of it.

Now I'm not saying my anecdotal experience is typical, but I would think it is. Occasionally when I get into these kinds of debates with people I'll ask them straight up, "How many people do you know who've been shot dead by criminals"? I've had these kinds of conversations probably a dozen times over the past few decades and I'm not exaggerating when I say NO ONE could name a single instance of that happening to them or anyone they knew. However almost everyone I asked would say something like, "Do accidents or suicides count"? Because like me, they knew examples like that.

And this also dovetails with the data. There were 39,707 deaths from firearms in the U.S. in 2019. Sixty percent of deaths from firearms in the U.S. are suicides. In 2019, 23,941 people in the U.S. died by firearm suicide. In 2019, 14,861 people in the U.S. died from firearm homicide, accounting for 37% of total deaths from firearms.

So when people try telling me they have to have a gun for protecting themselves and their families. I have to ask them protection from what? I remind them that I'm 52 and have never been in a situation when I thought a gun would be helpful. So when people say you're far more likely as a gun owner to die from gunshot when compared to those who don't keep a gun in the house, they're on solid ground. By simply owning a gun you statistically increase your chances of dying from a gunshot. These home invasions where the mysterious boogeyman just opens fire on the entire household are scarce, if they even exist at all. And even if it did happen to you, the chances that you'd be able to stop it with a gun is unlikely.