Belief in God

[msnobody]

If there is such thing as a faith crisis, people are placing way too much importance on the idea of faith. That phrase sounds equivalent to a sports fan crisis or a Star Wars plot crisis.

Is it a crisis to learn? To become aware? If it feels tragic to someone to lose a belief in something that's not real, then they are way too attached to their ideas and living an unnecessarily burdened life. You have to be able to change your mind.

+1

I don’t even know what “faith crisis” would or could mean if it were directed toward me. I’ve worked through the judeochristian notion of spirituality a long time ago, and I’ve spent a fair amount of time learning about other faith and philosophical positions that have brought me clarity about this existence. If I had to sum up my view of this world it’d be, “It is what it is. Adjust accordingly.”

- Doc

Maybe I read too much into your "severity softening" comment. Either way, enjoy life.

[KevinSim]

HELLO chopped liver asked some questions over here.

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Your thread topics and your answers are failing to land on me. I don't see anything at the moment with which to engage but I'll try something.

You say, "Like I said, I can't think of a more productive belief than a belief in God"

Productive in what way? What does a belief in God produce in you or for you, or produce in your life or perhaps even in the world? What is God's product in your life?

I'm sorry, Jersey Girl, I had thought I'd have more time to post responses to this thread than I've actually had. I'm taking a Computer Engineering class at Utah Valley University and it's taking up a lot of my time. On top of that I feel obligated to spend time with my wife and my grandson (that we are raising), and that doesn't leave a lot of time for anything else. Right now I'm on the UTA bus number 822 heading from UVU south to Springville, and it's the first time in a long time that I've been free to post to the Discuss Mormonism forum.

When I say belief in God is the most productive choice I see I mean that if I can't believe in a good God to guide me, then I don't really see how I can fill my conscientious obligation to the rest of the human race. If I can't ask God some questions and count on God answering those questions, then how can I ever figure out what that obligation is? Atheism doesn't do me any good; my obligation is still there, and all atheism does is unload the whole weight of that obligation on my own shoulders, and my opinion is that that's too much weight for any individual to carry.

[Some Schmo]

If I can't ask God some questions and count on God answering those questions, then how can I ever figure out what that obligation is?

Has your god ever answered any of your questions?

That's a serious question.

Atheism doesn't do me any good; my obligation is still there, and all atheism does is unload the whole weight of that obligation on my own shoulders, and my opinion is that that's too much weight for any individual to carry.

Atheism isn't really a choice. It comes with a particular mindset, where evidence is paramount to accessing the truth.

And the fact is, your obligations to humanity are solely up to you no matter what. I will say, if a god helps you do that job better, then more power to ya. It's just that it reminds me of the power of Dumbo's feather. But, ya know, whatever works.

[MeDotOrg]

Why shouldn't I believe in God?

Do what you want. No one's stopping you.

That's easy for you to say, Marcus. According to the board, you ARE a God.

God
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:44 pm

[KevinSim]

If there's a god, he's a piece of crap.

Some Schmo, why do you think that such a deity would be a piece of crap?

Thinking there's a god allowing the earth to happen as it is only leads to imagining a sick, sadistic bastard (or, at best, something that created and forgot about us).

So you think that deity would be able to allow a better Earth to happen? If so, why do you think so?

I would ask you to question every idea of god you've ever heard, that's all.

Oh, I do, I assure you.

I would start by questioning why you believe in a god, whether you really need one.

See my last response to Jersey Girl for my answer to that question.

[KevinSim]

I personally find that question uninteresting, because we can't say anything meaningful about something so far beyond our understanding.

Manetho, I can't figure out why everybody is so sure that the mentioned supreme being is way beyond our understanding.

They more or less assume that the Christian, or at least Abrahamic, understanding of the supreme being is the only possible one. I find that very irritating.

Understandably.

[KevinSim]

Is it a crisis to learn? To become aware?

It can be.

You have to be able to change your mind.

I believe I am.

[Marcus]

Do what you want. No one's stopping you.

That's easy for you to say, Marcus. According to the board, you ARE a God.

God
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:44 pm

[Jersey Girl]

I'm going to reply to this cold. That is to say, I didn't read any replies beyond this post of yours. I often do that when I don't want to be influenced in any way by the words of others. So...here goes. Let's see what I come up with.

HELLO chopped liver asked some questions over here.

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I'm sorry, Jersey Girl, I had thought I'd have more time to post responses to this thread than I've actually had. I'm taking a Computer Engineering class at Utah Valley University and it's taking up a lot of my time. On top of that I feel obligated to spend time with my wife and my grandson (that we are raising), and that doesn't leave a lot of time for anything else. Right now I'm on the UTA bus number 822 heading from UVU south to Springville, and it's the first time in a long time that I've been free to post to the Discuss Mormonism forum.

Understood. I know what it's like to juggle. Best wishes on all of the above!

When I say belief in God is the

I inadvertently deleted part of your sentence while replying but I recall the gist of it. I'd fix it but I don't want to see anyone else's words but yours. I probably sound like a crackpot. I don't really care if I do. It's just my way of staying true to myself.

I see I mean that if I can't believe in a good God to guide me, then I don't really see how I can fill my conscientious obligation to the rest of the human race.

I'm a Bible believing Christian myself. Still...in the interest of fairness, I'd have to say that from a sociological perspective I think that anyone (believer or non) can hold personal philosophies as to their contributions to others. You could say that deep down the purpose is the survival of the herd. I do think that there are a multitude of atheistic type folks who volunteer, give of their time and financial resources, essentially lend the other guy a helping hand in large and small ways. I've seen it right on this board in their posts and when I've pushed fund raisers for disaster victims. Wanting to help others in their various plights depends on empathy and compassion. I don't see that believers have more of those qualities than non-believers. Just saying.

Empathy and compassion are taught in early childhood by adults who help children discover the point of view of others. I could write a book on that here but I'll spare you.

As a Bible believing Christian, I tend to look at the world and all of us as well as God through both the wide and small lens. When I apply the wide angle lens to the Bible I see God creating the Creation. Later, I see Jesus entering human history with purpose. When I consider Genesis through The Revelation, I think I see a direct line of development, thought, and purpose. I tend to look at things in stages of development because that's how I'm wired in a number of ways. Anyway...consider the Fruits of the Spirit. I think when you talk about your obligation to the human race, you might consider how the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost if you are LDS) develops us to become more in line with the example of Jesus the Christ. I find that to be central to my own life.

If I can't ask God some questions and count on God answering those questions, then how can I ever figure out what that obligation is?

I think that you can approach this in one of two ways. Again, in the interest of fairness as best I can. 1. I think you can continue to ask God for guidance. 2. From an Atheist perspective I think you could reason things out for yourself.

Or both?

Believer: Where do you see God at work in the world? Are you willing to join Him?

Non-believer: Where do you see a need in the world? Are you someone who can help?

So I think there are two parallel points of views with the same objective available to you.

Atheism doesn't do me any good; my obligation is still there, and all atheism does is unload the whole weight of that obligation on my own shoulders, and my opinion is that that's too much weight for any individual to carry.

Why is that too much weight for you to carry?

I'm really curious to see whatever other replies you got here and if anyone asked you why you need God for a crutch.

I think the question you might ask yourself is what do you believe to be true about Jesus? And go from there...or you could try just not praying about a thing and see how that goes. If God exists (and I believe so) then I think He fully understands that we question and sometimes feel confused. Think about how Jesus cried out on the cross. I see a Jesus who knew exactly what it felt like to be human.

I think I could've done better with this reply. If I want to make another run at it, I will.

Again, best wishes in your current journey. You have a lot on your plate plus the sorting out of things you are talking about here. If you feel confident in your belief then you have the option to take that with you as you go forward.

[Jersey Girl]

Do what you want. No one's stopping you.

That's easy for you to say, Marcus. According to the board, you ARE a God.

God
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:44 pm