Trying to Understand

[Some Schmo]

All the talk on the coverage today of Biden becoming President Elect is on how it will be his first job to bring the country together.

The only way that can happen is if both sides understand from where the other is coming. I'm sitting here thinking about how I find myself completely sucked into the "us vs them" paradigm because I'm not sure how to deal with people who live in a fantasyland untethered by facts. I don't think it's a stretch to believe the vast majority of Trump supporters thought they were doing the right thing voting for Trump. The real question is, what on earth could have led them to believe it was the right thing? Did they never once consider how they would feel if a Democrat, especially Obama, acted like Trump, was this incompetent? I'm trying to fathom how ignorant one would need to be to feel like Biden is a bigger threat to America than Trump is.

I don't get it. I honestly want to understand. I have a hazy idea that it's mostly tribalism, something I've never really been able to relate to, given that I've always felt like an outsider and completely comfortable being alone. I suspect that my experience growing up in a cultish setting likely contributed to a revulsion toward groupthink.

But really, the biggest problem we have healing the country is that a good portion don't want to be healed. The fact that the rightwingnut media ecosystem exists (and is moderately popular) is proof of that. They aren't willing to stop listening to divisive rhetoric. They are so needy for conflict, they make up problems that don't exist. They fear ghosts. The Democrats have been coming for their guns for decades now. They have the same faith in that idea as Jesus returning some day. Despite the due dates, their fears still haven't materialized, but they go on fearing anyway, because that's the only way they know how to live.

How can we resolve differences when the conflict is over what's real?

[Philo Sofee]

It isn't just up to President elect Biden, but ALL of the Republicans in office as well.

[Some Schmo]

It isn't just up to President elect Biden, but ALL of the Republicans in office as well.

Well, that's another big chunk of the problem. Rather than setting their base straight on the facts (like real leaders), they follow their base into the conspiracy theory abyss (like real followers).

[Philo Sofee]

It isn't just up to President elect Biden, but ALL of the Republicans in office as well.

Well, that's another big chunk of the problem. Rather than setting their base straight on the facts (like real leaders), they follow their base into the conspiracy theory abyss (like real followers).

Agreed. For now I rejoice in saying as a VOTING American, Donald Trump YOU ARE FIRED, AND I HELPED DO IT. We the PEOPLE have the power, not you. We have spoken, now GO HOME and let we people make America great again by undoing your horrible damage to our country that we love.

[Gadianton]

Yep, Philo. A few years ago I moved from a deep blue state to a battleground state. I think of myself as more of an outsider to the system than a participant. I don't consider myself a liberal. This was the first time I've ever voted, and it was a nice feeling to think that this one all came down to me. I will gladly tell any of my right-wing friends should they push it -- I have more right-wing friends than left -- that they can thank me for saving them from a dictatorship of their own making.

[Jersey Girl]

Schmo this is a really reflective OP on your part. I don't have time to share all my thoughts about what you have written but I sure will do that later in the day.

I did just want to nab this out and stomp all over it, though because you know I gotta make a pitch for Team God every once in a while.

They have the same faith in that idea as Jesus returning some day.

Schmo...I think you have a tendency to categorize people as a "they" for one reason or another. You do it with the Republicans and also believers, and right here you merged the two. Republicans and believers are not one in the same. Maybe you think they have fused their religious belief with the party? That may well be true.

With regard to the Second Coming, there are various perspectives on that. I am sure there's a formal name for it, I just can't recall what it is called when Christians hold varying perspectives based on their interpretation of scripture as it stood in the historical context of it's own time. Some folks believe it is either far or near prophecy, and some believe it is both.

I'm not entirely sure which way I lean in that regard. I don't think it's important to take a solid position so long as I try my best to follow all the other philosophies for living Christian belief in practice. Yes, I know I cuss like a truck driver. That's a thing with me for sure. I work on it, and then I revert on a dime.

Anyway, I was a registered Republican for decades. I recently changed my affiliation to "unaffiliated" for this election and based on every darn thing I saw happening from the White House on down. This year as I always do, I voted the according to the dictates of my conscience--my vote is one of those things that I see as being between myself and my God. Did I get it right? I think I got it right according to me and what I believe.

Do I believe in the Second Coming? I believe it already happened during the time in which it was written and I hold out a hope of it happening again even if it amounts to a one:one event when we die.

Despite the due dates, their fears still haven't materialized, but they go on fearing anyway, because that's the only way they know how to live.

I know people just like that in my family. I could provide scripture ref after rep that instructs us not to live in fear. But when you say the "due dates" and I know what you mean...my mind goes right to this:

Matthew 24:36 KJV

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So when someone up and predicts the "end of the world", I don't attach myself to that in any way at all. And I always think it's just a good thing that I memorized scripture as a child so I can recall these things to mind--which is also, I think, spelled out in the Bible. Like it's all spelled out in those 66 Books, you know? You just have to put your face in it and actually read them.

I'll come back later to respond to the bulk of your OP. I'll try not to go "God"on you again, k?

[Some Schmo]

Schmo...I think you have a tendency to categorize people as a "they" for one reason or another. You do it with the Republicans and also believers, and right here you merged the two. Republicans and believers are not one in the same. Maybe you think they have fused their religious belief with the party? That may well be true.

I will cop to the fact that I am completely in the tank contributing to the division in this country. I see it in myself every day, and I don't like it about myself.

The problem is that I'm not sure how to think differently about the people who voted for Trump (which I suppose was the impetus for this thread). I'm not sure how to reach out to people who seem fundamentally opposed to letting facts dictate what we talk about. I can't relate to people who admire, or at least passively enable obvious incompetence and stupidity. The biggest thing I have trouble getting past is the people who actually believe him when he brags about the job he's done. How should we regard that kind of ignorance, that kind of awful judgment?

I hear Trump fans don't like condescension pointed their way, and yet they do nothing to dissuade it. They belligerently invite it. Just like Trump, they want us to accept their malfeasance and love them too, while asking us to take them seriously when they complain about everyone else's faults (especially when those faults are the things of which they are most guilty). It just doesn't work that way, so they'll never be satisfied.

I can't see it as anything else but trying to have an adult conversation with a toddler. It is condescending, because they live so low.

As for the religious stuff, I'm fine with you doing you, Jersey Girl. I do see believing in unsubstantiated claims as the gateway to believing conspiracy theories and nonsense about political leaders because of a weakening in the person's standard for belief. It's hard to separate one unsubstantiated belief from another just because of a holy book or two. Not every religious person goes off the deep end in this way, but enough to see it as a pattern with which we should take extreme caution. I started calling the Trump base a cult long before it was popular to do so, because the pattern is so obvious to me. Scientology and Mormonism have nothing over Trumpism in terms of believing outrageous nonsense.

[Jersey Girl]

Schmo another thoughtful post from you. Two in one day? You are really, really, thinking about things today. As am I.

If you see that I made some other posts and didn't reply directly to your OP, I assure you that it's because I want to be able to sit with your thoughts when I reply to them.

It felt like the last 4 years were the roller coaster ride of our lives, the last four days seemed like we were running a marathon in slow motion headed for the finish line.

It's a lot to take in. It really is.

Grateful, relieved, a sense of "wait. what just happened?", and all sorts of things...and how do we think about it and understand it.

I'll be back.

[Jersey Girl]

Oh and I wanted to say just for the record, the other side of the house is really took a punch to the gut today. Take from that what you will, folks. Try not to forget about them. They are real people with real lives, and real people who love them.

[Some Schmo]

Schmo another thoughtful post from you. Two in one day? You are really, really, thinking about things today. As am I.

Oh and I wanted to say just for the record, the other side of the house is really took a punch to the gut today. Take from that what you will, folks. Try not to forget about them. They are real people with real lives, and real people who love them.

You are right on both counts. I'm feeling good and optimistic, and I suppose some generosity toward the people who are disappointed today.

You know, I was just thinking back to 2008 and how that summer, I was seriously torn between Obama and McCain. There was an excellent chance I'd have voted for McCain (I hadn't been naturalized yet, so I couldn't vote then anyway - I was following the race like I could vote, though) right up until we got to know Sarah Palin. It was over those few months that I began to realize the GOP was not the party I thought it was, and that Americans were not as advanced as I thought. I'm pretty sure that's when it started really going downhill for me, and that the thought of voting for another Republican seemed impossible.

I heard Larry Hogan might run in 2024. I could see myself getting behind him, maybe (I'd have to know a lot more about him). The problem for any Republican, however, is that their party is filled with shameless hypocrites. The culture of the party has to change before I can support any of their nominees.