Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

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doubtingthomas
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by doubtingthomas »

canpakes wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:45 am
Nationally, women under 30 who work full time, year-round earn about 93 cents on the dollar compared with men in the same age range, measured at the median./quote]
Some points to consider

1. You did not control race.
2. Men tend to pick riskier and tougher jobs.
3. More men chose a field in STEM
4. It's black and Hispanic women who are struggling the most. It's mostly a racial issue, not a gender issue.
5. Men tend to work more overtime hours
6. The motherhood penalty does affect women's wages, but a lot of things are unfair in life. Some things are unfair to men, other things are unfair to women. I would argue that more things are unfair to men.

canpakes wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:00 am

But, if you’ve got the data, post it so that we can talk about it.
The fact that there are a lot more scholarships exclusively for women?

You can start by watching this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY
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canpakes
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by canpakes »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:39 pm
canpakes wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:45 am
Nationally, women under 30 who work full time, year-round earn about 93 cents on the dollar compared with men in the same age range, measured at the median./quote]
Some points to consider

1. You did not control race.
2. Men tend to pick riskier and tougher jobs.
3. More men chose a field in STEM
4. It's black and Hispanic women who are struggling the most. It's mostly a racial issue, not a gender issue.
5. Men tend to work more overtime hours
6. The motherhood penalty does affect women's wages, but a lot of things are unfair in life. Some things are unfair to men, other things are unfair to women. I would argue that more things are unfair to men.
With regard to the last bullet point, remember that the article I posted states the following: “Nationally, women under 30 who work full time, year-round earn about 93 cents on the dollar compared with men in the same age range, measured at the median.” It’s not possible to know with certainty how the ‘motherhood penalty’ factors into this subset, but the comparison may be between men and women who have not taken maternity leave during the periods used for comparison. Beyond maternity leave, childcare requirements shouldn’t matter much here if the number of hours worked is the same for both men and women. It may actually ’help’ the numbers for women, if some are working overtime and after-hours timeslots due to working around childcare requirements (Hooray for being a full-time mom and a full-time worker!).

All that said, I don’t see what scholarships/financial aid for women have to do with these bulleted considerations.

canpakes wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:00 am
But, if you’ve got the data, post it so that we can talk about it.
The fact that there are a lot more scholarships exclusively for women?
No; I’m looking for something that links scholarship availability for women to some sort of negative effect on male post-secondary school enrollment or success.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

canpakes wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:35 pm
Nationally, women under 30 who work full time, year-round earn about 93 cents on the dollar compared with men in the same age range, measured at the median.
Is that in the same fields? One of the reasons I think non-degreed men earn more than non-degreed women is because they go into higher risk jobs (read: dirty jobs) that pay more than low risk jobs. I dunno, it’s been a while since I paid attention to this issue because there are so many people playing around with datapoints that skew the results into an ideological framework I lost interest.

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by Res Ipsa »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:39 pm
canpakes wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:45 am
Nationally, women under 30 who work full time, year-round earn about 93 cents on the dollar compared with men in the same age range, measured at the median./quote]
Some points to consider

1. You did not control race.
So? If you think data controlled for race is important, go find some.
[doubtingthomas wrote:2. Men tend to pick riskier and tougher jobs.
Data? Does that automatically translate into higher pay? If so, choice? Just like fewer men choose to go to college, right?
doubtingthomas wrote:3. More men chose a field in STEM
Data? Even if true, more choice. Hmmm, I'm sensing a pattern. When men do better, it's because they choose to do better. When they do worse, they are the victims of radical feminists.
doubtingthomas wrote:4. It's black and Hispanic women who are struggling the most. It's mostly a racial issue, not a gender issue.
Data? Can show an analysis that demonstrates the relative causal share of race as opposed to gender?
doubtingthomas wrote:5. Men tend to work more overtime hours
Data? More choice, right?
doubtinghomas wrote:6. The motherhood penalty does affect women's wages, but a lot of things are unfair in life. Some things are unfair to men, other things are unfair to women. I would argue that more things are unfair to men.
So, unfairness to women doesn't count because life is unfair, but unfairness to men is ZOMG a CRISIS!!!!

Also, unfairness to women is because men make better choices, while unfairness to men is RADICAL FEMINISTS.

canpakes wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:00 am

But, if you’ve got the data, post it so that we can talk about it.
The fact that there are a lot more scholarships exclusively for women?

You can start by watching this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY
[/quote]

Start by looking at facts and figures. The number of scholarships tells us nothing. Scholarships range from $500 to full ride.

The total value of student grants in the U.S. is about $135B per year. Scholarships represent about 7.5B. Of those totals, what percentage represents dollars available only to women? Only to men?

Pell Grants alone represent $29.57B, followed by Veterans grants, which represent 11.26B. Those are federal grants that are not restricted by sex.

https://research.com/research/scholarship-statistics

Even if we rely on the number of scholarships awarded, the M/F ratio of scholarship recipients is the same as that for the number of college students. In other words, men are not proportionately disadvantaged as measured by the number of scholarships awarded.

https://whattobecome.com/blog/scholarship-stats/
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by Kishkumen »

I am against radical anything. I don't know that we have a boy emergency going on, however.
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canpakes
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by canpakes »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:52 pm
canpakes wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:35 pm
Nationally, women under 30 who work full time, year-round earn about 93 cents on the dollar compared with men in the same age range, measured at the median.
Is that in the same fields? One of the reasons I think non-degreed men earn more than non-degreed women is because they go into higher risk jobs (read: dirty jobs) that pay more than low risk jobs. I dunno, it’s been a while since I paid attention to this issue because there are so many people playing around with datapoints that skew the results into an ideological framework I lost interest.

- Doc

I agree and would have the same question. There are so many factors to consider in a comparison like this that I tend to be skeptical of many of the quoted earnings differences that I’ve run across.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by Res Ipsa »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:53 pm
I am against radical anything. I don't know that we have a boy emergency going on, however.
I think “radical” Is another of those terms that has lost any distinct meaning. Well, perhaps “people I disagree with.”

I wouldn’t say that we have a boy emergency, but I think there is evidence of some boy problems worth looking into. One is simply how we structure the school day. I don’t think the reduction of recess periods at the younger grade levels was a good thing for young boys. #notallboysandsomegirlstoo
The disparity in high school graduation rates is something we should look at. Likewise, opiate addiction and suicide have a disproportionate impact on young men in rural areas. I think that warrants serious attention. And the latest school shooting notwithstanding, the percentage of mass shooters that are male also indicates a problem.

The Washington Post ran an article or articles on the mental health of young folks. While the state of mental health is not great, there does seem to be some distinct differences between the sexes.
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Kishkumen
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by Kishkumen »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:14 pm
I think “radical” Is another of those terms that has lost any distinct meaning. Well, perhaps “people I disagree with.”
I take your point but I don't think it is altogether accurate. Even if it is abused, I still find it useful for people who try to overturn legitimate elections and the like.
I wouldn’t say that we have a boy emergency, but I think there is evidence of some boy problems worth looking into. One is simply how we structure the school day. I don’t think the reduction of recess periods at the younger grade levels was a good thing for young boys. #notallboysandsomegirlstoo
The disparity in high school graduation rates is something we should look at. Likewise, opiate addiction and suicide have a disproportionate impact on young men in rural areas. I think that warrants serious attention. And the latest school shooting notwithstanding, the percentage of mass shooters that are male also indicates a problem.

The Washington Post ran an article or articles on the mental health of young folks. While the state of mental health is not great, there does seem to be some distinct differences between the sexes.
All good points, but I also know that in my circle of friends mentioning distinct differences between the sexes as though that were a factual thing not infrequently raises hackles, and I would also call that resistance to biological science radical too. Not only that, I would stand by my use.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by Res Ipsa »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:25 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:14 pm
I think “radical” Is another of those terms that has lost any distinct meaning. Well, perhaps “people I disagree with.”
I take your point but I don't think it is altogether accurate. Even if it is abused, I still find it useful for people who try to overturn legitimate elections and the like.
I agree.
I wouldn’t say that we have a boy emergency, but I think there is evidence of some boy problems worth looking into. One is simply how we structure the school day. I don’t think the reduction of recess periods at the younger grade levels was a good thing for young boys. #notallboysandsomegirlstoo
The disparity in high school graduation rates is something we should look at. Likewise, opiate addiction and suicide have a disproportionate impact on young men in rural areas. I think that warrants serious attention. And the latest school shooting notwithstanding, the percentage of mass shooters that are male also indicates a problem.

The Washington Post ran an article or articles on the mental health of young folks. While the state of mental health is not great, there does seem to be some distinct differences between the sexes.
Kishkumen wrote:All good points, but I also know that in my circle of friends mentioning distinct differences between the sexes as though that were a factual thing not infrequently raises hackles, and I would also call that resistance to biological science radical too. Not only that, I would stand by my use.
I don't know. The nature v. nurture debate is something that I think reasonable people can and do disagree over. Bristlers gonna bristle. ;)
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Kishkumen
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Re: Society is discriminating against boys, says Forbes. Brookings.edu says, "boys are falling behind"

Post by Kishkumen »

I don't know. The nature v. nurture debate is something that I think reasonable people can and do disagree over. Bristlers gonna bristle. ;)
Surely the answer is somewhere between the extremes and not a denial of biology. Biology makes no difference?

Nah.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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