Re: Israel
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:20 pm
Thanks, Chap. What I envisioned was the enemy being drowned in the tunnels. Is that what they're doing?
Internet Mormons, Chapel Mormons, Critics, Apologists, and Never-Mo's all welcome!
https://discussmormonism.com/
Thanks, Chap. What I envisioned was the enemy being drowned in the tunnels. Is that what they're doing?
^ thinks Trump actually wrote Art of The Con DealJersey Girl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:20 pmThanks, Chap. What I envisioned was the enemy being drowned in the tunnels. Is that what they're doing?
Given what is said to be the elaborate nature of the tunnels below Gaza (we have the testimony of releases hostages to that effect), I would think that it would be fairly easy for persons in them to leave any area that was being flooded before their lives were endangered. Probably much of the purpose of flooding accessible parts of the system would simply be to effectively interdict their use. But I am only guessing.Jersey Girl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:20 pmThanks, Chap. What I envisioned was the enemy being drowned in the tunnels. Is that what they're doing?
See I don't know much about that. That's why I asked. I pictured bodies floating out of the tunnels. I guess what you are saying is that they are trying to "flush out" whomever might be in the tunnels...mainly Hamas.Chap wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:01 pmGiven what is said to be the elaborate nature of the tunnels below Gaza (we have the testimony of releases hostages to that effect), I would think that it would be fairly easy for persons in them to leave any area that was being flooded before their lives were endangered. Probably much of the purpose of flooding accessible parts of the system would simply be to effectively interdict their use. But I am only guessing.Jersey Girl wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:20 pmThanks, Chap. What I envisioned was the enemy being drowned in the tunnels. Is that what they're doing?
While they were half naked and waving white flags no less. Israel's war crimes are beyond comprehension and we're complicit for funding them. Wonder how the media will try to spin this and blame Hamas.Jersey Girl wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:08 amSo the IDF killed 3 Israeli hostages by mistake.
War is absolute insanity.
The IDF has stated that the soldiers who did the shooting did not act in accordance with the 'rules of engagement' that were in their orders.Vēritās wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:54 pmWhile they were half naked and waving white flags no less. Israel's war crimes are beyond comprehension and we're complicit for funding them. Wonder how the media will try to spin this and blame Hamas.Jersey Girl wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:08 amSo the IDF killed 3 Israeli hostages by mistake.
War is absolute insanity.
Pure horse crap. When you listen to enough interviews of former IDF soldiers you get the sense that they really don't have any rules.Chap wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:17 pmThe IDF has stated that the soldiers who did the shooting did not act in accordance with the 'rules of engagement' that were in their orders.
The statement I made was true. Like any operational army, the IDF has rules of engagement, and in this case they claimed (follow the link) that the soldiers in question had not obeyed them.Vēritās wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:42 pm[...] When you listen to enough interviews of former IDF soldiers you get the sense that they really don't have any rules.Chap wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:17 pmThe IDF has stated that the soldiers who did the shooting did not act in accordance with the 'rules of engagement' that were in their orders.
[...]
Do you have a problem with what I said?Chap wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:17 pmHowever, I have not so far seen a journalistic source pointing out that, even if the IDF's rules of engagement state, as they probably do, that its soldiers should not open fire on obviously unarmed civilians clearly attempting to surrender (and these men were, probably deliberately, shirtless thus showing that they were not wearing suicide vests), the average Israeli soldier is not a professional, but a citizen reservist who may have no previous real combat experience. Put such men in the horribly scary situation of urban warfare against a concealed adversary for a few weeks, and let some men appear unexpectedly in their vicinity, and what may happen? They panic, shout "terrorists" and open fire, as they did in this case.
It may be that we shall have to accept that continued urban war in an environment where the enemy is closely mingled with and indistinguishable from the mass of the population is inevitably going to lead to a lot of civilian casualties, whatever the higher military command issues by way of rules of engagement. With a fully experienced professional army, Israel might be able to argue that it can conduct boots-on-the-ground counter-terrorist operations in Gaza while minimising civilian deaths. However, it does not look as if that is turning out to be a practical proposition, and in that case the justification for continuing such operations is considerably decreased.
I'm afraid I have to agree. This is not Entebbe in 1976. Defeating a ruthless enemy in a built-up area might be possible without killing lots of civilians and hostages, but it's at least incredibly hard. Everybody is terrified, and with good reason, so it takes incredibly good training, discipline, and leadership to stop soldiers from just shooting at everything that even slightly alarms them.Chap wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:17 pmWith a fully experienced professional army, Israel might be able to argue that it can conduct boots-on-the-ground counter-terrorist operations in Gaza while minimising civilian deaths. However, it does not look as if that is turning out to be a practical proposition, and in that case the justification for continuing such operations is considerably decreased.
Perhaps Israel can say that it doesn't deliberately intend all the civilian casualties, unlike Hamas, but continuing to wage war in a way that is bound to cause lots of civilian casualties is depraved indifference.Samuel 18:7 wrote:Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands.