The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

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Markk
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The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Markk »

From another other thread. After first reading this post by Gadianton and thinking it was a joke, I just kind of laughed, but then he doubled down I realized he was serious. I just feel this plan needs a place of it's own on this forum for prosperity, it is truly classic.

What do the folks here think about this plan, is it hall of fame worthy?

The problem is halfway solved already given Fentanyl has overtaken the market and is a synthetic drug. You don't need a tropical environment and a complex operation of plant growing and harvesting like with cocaine. Just like an oil cartel, you beat a drug cartel by underselling it. Fentanyl, first off, will be banned entirely for medical use -- doctors can prescribe something else. Then, in a secret operation, the government will create fentanyl of the highest quality and perfectly measured and offer increasingly better prices, and become the premiere supplier. They will need to go this route to perfectly learn the entire network and make sure to find all the nooks and crannies and take over the whole thing. At the same time, the idea is to avoid new users, it will happen, but I don't agree with lemonade stands or get it from the pharmacy. It needs to organically get to the entire user base as it is, and in their mode of obtaining it -- it can't feel "unnatural" to the users. Once the old suppliers are out of business, we have options.
Marcus
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Marcus »

And here's Gad's full post, with a link, in case people would like to decide for themselves whether or not Gad was having a little fun with someone who thinks criticism of a concept is a logical fallacy because A.I. told him so:
Gadianton wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2025 10:00 pm
Markk,

Good lord, you quote me talking about the housing crisis and the economics surrounding non-criminal illegal immigration and how free-enterprise vs. socialist economies would approach things differently, and when I say I have no solutions, you re-frame the conversation to be about the cartel and criminal illegals. what is your problem, dude?

As for just the criminal stuff, well, prosecuting illegal criminals and deporting them is fine. Trump isn't the first to do it, he's not doing any more of it than others have. He's just wasting money deporting people with nothing to do with the problem and scapegoating them as the cause. And getting an army of stupid and brainwashed so-called Christians to back him up.

Here's your solution, Markk, assuming I were a dictator, which is how you imagine Trump:

The problem is halfway solved already given Fentanyl has overtaken the market and is a synthetic drug. You don't need a tropical environment and a complex operation of plant growing and harvesting like with cocaine. Just like an oil cartel, you beat a drug cartel by underselling it. Fentanyl, first off, will be banned entirely for medical use -- doctors can prescribe something else. Then, in a secret operation, the government will create fentanyl of the highest quality and perfectly measured and offer increasingly better prices, and become the premiere supplier. They will need to go this route to perfectly learn the entire network and make sure to find all the nooks and crannies and take over the whole thing. At the same time, the idea is to avoid new users, it will happen, but I don't agree with lemonade stands or get it from the pharmacy. It needs to organically get to the entire user base as it is, and in their mode of obtaining it -- it can't feel "unnatural" to the users. Once the old suppliers are out of business, we have options.

I'm going to forgo speculation on the next steps, since you only asked about breaking the cartel supply infringements on the country, which is taken care of at this point. If the cartel tries to shift to cocaine, something they can produce better, then we buy or seize cocaine, lace it with fentanyl, and get the consumers hooked on our stuff; the strongest stuff there is.
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Snazzip
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Snazzip »

Markk wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2025 1:33 pm
From another other thread. After first reading this post by Gadianton and thinking it was a joke, I just kind of laughed, but then he doubled down I realized he was serious. I just feel this plan needs a place of it's own on this forum for prosperity, it is truly classic.

What do the folks here think about this plan, is it hall of fame worthy?

The problem is halfway solved already given Fentanyl has overtaken the market and is a synthetic drug. You don't need a tropical environment and a complex operation of plant growing and harvesting like with cocaine. Just like an oil cartel, you beat a drug cartel by underselling it. Fentanyl, first off, will be banned entirely for medical use -- doctors can prescribe something else. Then, in a secret operation, the government will create fentanyl of the highest quality and perfectly measured and offer increasingly better prices, and become the premiere supplier. They will need to go this route to perfectly learn the entire network and make sure to find all the nooks and crannies and take over the whole thing. At the same time, the idea is to avoid new users, it will happen, but I don't agree with lemonade stands or get it from the pharmacy. It needs to organically get to the entire user base as it is, and in their mode of obtaining it -- it can't feel "unnatural" to the users. Once the old suppliers are out of business, we have options.
I'm positive that the omission of the preceding sentence was just an accidental oversight, and not an attempt to make us believe that the whole statement wasn't facetious. Your ideas for solutions are so perfect and correct, you wouldn't need to do something so underhanded.
Chap
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Chap »

Markk reacts incredulously to the idea that governments could pull the rug out from under criminal drug gangs by supplying clean heroin to addicts and hence destroying the market on which the gangs depend.

But once there WAS a government that did avoid criminals making money out of supplying drugs to addicts. See this evidence submitted to the UK parliament:

https://committees.parliament.uk/writte ... 2Dexistent.
DRP0033
Written evidence from Law Enforcement Action Partnership UK (LEAP UK)

History:

The Inquiry has requested submissions on the health consequences of illicit drugs policy. Law Enforcement Action Partnership UK (LEAP UK) are extremely well placed to respond to the inquiry. LEAP UK is an organisation whose membership represents a broad pool of Law Enforcement professionals who worked to enforce the UK and International law dealing with illicit drugs, most obviously the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. Our members include intelligence operatives who dealt with drug trafficking to fund Terrorism and Organised Crime on the global stage and military personnel from the British Army and the Royal Navy who were charged with physically disrupting international drug trafficking routes. The vast majority of the LEAP UK membership, however, have served or are currently serving as police officers in the United Kingdom. Virtually every rank from Special Constable through to Chief Constable is represented. Many of the members have extensive experience working in Drugs Units, including as level 2 undercover operatives where the nature of their work brought them into daily contact with the most vulnerable drugs users. They have witnessed first-hand the detrimental impact of UK policy on the health of these individuals.

“Our current drug laws address the issue of drug use with shame and criminalisation, it shames those who use non-problematically into secrecy, and those who use problematically - who need treatment and help - into a system that only compounds their problems.” - Suzanne Sharkey, former Constable and Undercover Operative, CID

There is a time in living memory for some people in the UK when there was no crime associated with drugs at all. Our nation was globally recognised as leaders of a health focused approach to drugs. In a policy known as the ‘British System’, problematic heroin users could report to their doctor and be prescribed clinically produced heroin which they would collect from a local pharmacy. The negative health implications associated with the illicit market were non-existent. The spread of addiction across the population was controlled because there was no incentive to convert non-users into customers in the way our members regularly encounter with the illicit market today. In the final year before the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (MoDA) was introduced, there were 1,049 recorded instances of people suffering from heroin addiction – 20 years later this number had risen to 300,000 people. This is not evidence of a policy that is protecting the health of British people.

In the 48 years since the MoDA became law, UK police forces have had a great deal of success in investigating and disrupting Organised Crime networks. Drug dealers and traffickers at all levels of the criminal hierarchy are arrested on a daily basis. Some of our members have been instrumental in developing investigative techniques that have contributed to thousands of years of successful drug convictions. Nevertheless, drug-related deaths in the UK are at record levels and are amongst the highest percentage of deaths per population in Europe. According to the ONS there were 3,756 deaths in England and Wales in 2017 due to drug poisonings – the highest since records began. It is clear that our accomplishments have not translated into a positive impact on mortality rates. We contend that they are largely to blame for the increase in drug-related health harms as users are forced into criminality and suffer from all the related harmful behaviours that stem from illicit substance use. What we can say without a shadow of a doubt is that we have failed to curtail the illicit market. Instead, we have witnessed it become increasingly violent and exploitative in response to our ability to disrupt it.
Got that? Until the criminalisation of drug use in the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, heroin addicts in the UK could register as such with their doctor, and would be supplied with clean heroin at no cost in carefully controlled quantities under medical supervision. There was no heroin market for criminals to exploit, because addiction was treated as an illness.

But when the criminal law was brought to bear in 1971, and the so-called 'British System' ceased to operate, a huge criminal market was created, with the result that criminals worked hard to increase the number of addicts they supplied with adulterated and impure heroin, and both addiction and associated crime rates soared. To sum it up:

In the final year before the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (MoDA) was introduced, there were 1,049 recorded instances of people suffering from heroin addiction – 20 years later this number had risen to 300,000 people.

Rumour has it that the UK government abandoned its previous successful heroin control policy as a result of pressure from the US government. I hope that is not true, but it does sound plausible.
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Gadianton
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Gadianton »

There are lots of problems with the suggestion but If I were a dictator and had to implement something, that's my best guess. I wasn't being sarcastic. Note, the problem was posed as how to break the cartel, not necessarily help users. A big issue with the idea is corruption within the new government cartel that I'm running as a black op. There's going to be a lot of money here for those like my old ICE neighbor getting rich prolonging the problem. There would need to be some incentives to actually solve the problem. Although, the question was breaking the cartel and the cartel is broken independent of government corruption. If I'm not a dictator, just a normal president, how am I going to fix it? I have fewer ideas. I have to say, it was the CCP that fixed China's opium crisis and it included draconian measures, but it wasn't simplistically draconian.
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Markk
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Markk »

Snazzip wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2025 2:03 pm
Markk wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2025 1:33 pm
From another other thread. After first reading this post by Gadianton and thinking it was a joke, I just kind of laughed, but then he doubled down I realized he was serious. I just feel this plan needs a place of it's own on this forum for prosperity, it is truly classic.

What do the folks here think about this plan, is it hall of fame worthy?
I'm positive that the omission of the preceding sentence was just an accidental oversight, and not an attempt to make us believe that the whole statement wasn't facetious. Your ideas for solutions are so perfect and correct, you wouldn't need to do something so underhanded.
Well as you can see by his post, he was not sarcastic. The guy was dead serious and doubled down on it, as I will show in the next post.
Markk
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Markk »

Gadianton wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2025 3:37 pm
There are lots of problems with the suggestion but If I were a dictator and had to implement something, that's my best guess. I wasn't being sarcastic. Note, the problem was posed as how to break the cartel, not necessarily help users. A big issue with the idea is corruption within the new government cartel that I'm running as a black op. There's going to be a lot of money here for those like my old ICE neighbor getting rich prolonging the problem. There would need to be some incentives to actually solve the problem. Although, the question was breaking the cartel and the cartel is broken independent of government corruption. If I'm not a dictator, just a normal president, how am I going to fix it? I have fewer ideas. I have to say, it was the CCP that fixed China's opium crisis and it included draconian measures, but it wasn't simplistically draconian.
You said in your next post in direct to question 1..." I answered questions 2, 3, and 4, as I could do that in one fell swoop." Speaking of your action point above.

Plus I left this out of my OP, assuming it was enough.
I'm going to forgo speculation on the next steps, since you only asked about breaking the cartel supply infringements on the country, which is taken care of at this point. If the cartel tries to shift to cocaine, something they can produce better, then we buy or seize cocaine, lace it with fentanyl, and get the consumers hooked on our stuff; the strongest stuff there is.
I would love to go through his posts point by point, if he is willing.
Marcus
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Marcus »

Gadianton wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2025 3:37 pm
There are lots of problems with the suggestion but If I were a dictator and had to implement something, that's my best guess. I wasn't being sarcastic. Note, the problem was posed as how to break the cartel, not necessarily help users. A big issue with the idea is corruption within the new government cartel that I'm running as a black op. There's going to be a lot of money here for those like my old ICE neighbor getting rich prolonging the problem. There would need to be some incentives to actually solve the problem. Although, the question was breaking the cartel and the cartel is broken independent of government corruption. If I'm not a dictator, just a normal president, how am I going to fix it? I have fewer ideas. I have to say, it was the CCP that fixed China's opium crisis and it included draconian measures, but it wasn't simplistically draconian.
I get the feeling Markk missed the part of your comment that I highlighted.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Jersey Girl »

So now there are a total of FOUR threads devoted to this topic for Markk to play on. :roll:
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Markk
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Re: The Fentanyl Crisis is finally solved....

Post by Markk »

Marcus wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:03 am
Gadianton wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2025 3:37 pm
There are lots of problems with the suggestion but If I were a dictator and had to implement something, that's my best guess. I wasn't being sarcastic. Note, the problem was posed as how to break the cartel, not necessarily help users. A big issue with the idea is corruption within the new government cartel that I'm running as a black op. There's going to be a lot of money here for those like my old ICE neighbor getting rich prolonging the problem. There would need to be some incentives to actually solve the problem. Although, the question was breaking the cartel and the cartel is broken independent of government corruption. If I'm not a dictator, just a normal president, how am I going to fix it? I have fewer ideas. I have to say, it was the CCP that fixed China's opium crisis and it included draconian measures, but it wasn't simplistically draconian.
I get the feeling Markk missed the part of your comment that I highlighted.
LOL...okay, so his solution wasn't a joke, and it was to break the cartel, as I asked, if he was in complete control as dictators are. FYI I asked if he were president, but he took farther as if he had complete control.

At least Gad has the nads to offer his opinion, I respect him for that. It is certainly thought out, how ever "interesting." So given all your nitpicking of Trump's plan, which seems to be working fairly well so far after only 5 weeks. What is your solution?

But anyway what do you think of his (Gad's) plan, is it a good one in your opinion?
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