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I do not think fascism has a precise meaning but it does refer to things which have been real. Fascist movements in the first half of the 20th century were creating what was theorized as the ideal best society. It was one where individuality was to be overwritten by command of society. It was a thoroughly militarized society not just as an emergency but as an ongoing ideal. People remember these movements for starting ww2 and killing millions of people in social cleansing campaigns.

All sorts of people may look at Trump and think that whatever he is he is not that. Some people see pieces phrases attitudes with Trump that remind them of fascism in disturbing ways. It is an easy phrase to just up and call Trump fascist. People uncertain or supporting Trump hear that and thinking of the differences reject the accusation. The very accusation becomes a cloak obscuring the dangerous aspects of Trump.

I think Trumpism is it's own kind of creature. It is evolving perhaps taking shape. I see an unstable mix of Trump's ego and conjectures with various groups who think he is useful. With no crystal ball I do not see where it goes.

It can be resisted by focusing upon basic human and American values. People are not to be put in prison without legal due process.

I'm sure reasonable people could disagree on if The Rapist is a fascist or not, but I struggle to think of anything else he could do that would make me think "ah ha! Now he's definitely a fascist." This is a very dark time in America, and I'm horrified to think of what we are going to be finding out is going on behind the scenes. Just saw a report from a whistle blower that the DOGE boys are stealing people's data, and then leaving open access to the systems which are being accessed in minutes from Russian IP addresses. I do believe America is being destroyed and stripped for parts right in front of us by nefarious actors.

huckelberry wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 6:04 pm

I do not think fascism has a precise meaning but it does refer to things which have been real. Fascist movements in the first half of the 20th century were creating what was theorized as the ideal best society. It was one where individuality was to be overwritten by command of society. It was a thoroughly militarized society not just as an emergency but as an ongoing ideal. People remember these movements for starting ww2 and killing millions of people in social cleansing campaigns.

All sorts of people may look at Trump and think that whatever he is he is not that. Some people see pieces phrases attitudes with Trump that remind them of fascism in disturbing ways. It is an easy phrase to just up and call Trump fascist. People uncertain or supporting Trump hear that and thinking of the differences reject the accusation. The very accusation becomes a cloak obscuring the dangerous aspects of Trump.

I think Trumpism is it's own kind of creature. It is evolving perhaps taking shape. I see an unstable mix of Trump's ego and conjectures with various groups who think he is useful. With no crystal ball I do not see where it goes.

It can be resisted by focusing upon basic human and American values. People are not to be put in prison without legal due process.

Have you read any scholarship on fascism? ‘Cause, I gotta tell you, when I do I see resonances with the MAGA movement all over the place. Start with Ecco’s Ur Fascism. It is brief and available for free on line.

To me it is funny how democracy takes different forms and even communism does, but people go out of their way to deny that fascism can have similar shades and differences. I think the problem is that many people are in denial, thinking “it can’t happen here.”

Actually it is happening here. Right now.

huckelberry wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 6:04 pm

It can be resisted by focusing upon basic human and American values. People are not to be put in prison without legal due process.

That much, I guess we can agree upon. I wish, though, that Trump agreed with all of that. It is increasingly difficult to escape the conclusion that he doesn't. This is certainly consistent with fascism, whether we call him an outright fascist or not, isn't it? Certainly, his threat to cancel broadcast licenses of news organizations that broadcast news or criticisms of him he doesn't like are consistent with fascistic tendencies.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 7:51 pm

Have you read any scholarship on fascism? ‘Cause, I gotta tell you, when I do I see resonances with the MAGA movement all over the place. Start with Ecco’s Ur Fascism. It is brief and available for free on line.

To me it is funny how democracy takes different forms and even communism does, but people go out of their way to deny that fascism can have similar shades and differences. I think the problem is that many people are in denial, thinking “it can’t happen here.”

Actually it is happening here. Right now.

Thanks, Kish. As usual you said it better!

Gunnar wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:06 pm

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 7:51 pm

Have you read any scholarship on fascism? ‘Cause, I gotta tell you, when I do I see resonances with the MAGA movement all over the place. Start with Ecco’s Ur Fascism. It is brief and available for free on line.

To me it is funny how democracy takes different forms and even communism does, but people go out of their way to deny that fascism can have similar shades and differences. I think the problem is that many people are in denial, thinking “it can’t happen here.”

Actually it is happening here. Right now.

Thanks, Kish. As usual you said it better!

Did I write in English? Have I read about fascism? Wtf?

Why would anybody think I do not see the resonance and the danger? I think it foolish to imagine it could not get worse. It could get a lot worse. History can provide all sorts of examples

If one thinks of Christian nationalism one might think Cromwell or maybe a German Nazified church. One might consider that now that Christian nationalism is only a bit of the stew and may be only a convenient sideline.

Well, they are not throwing folks they don't like out of airplanes.......Well true but the observation does not incline me to like Trump (whose location among the poles of Putin, Hitler, or antichrist is not known by me but I would guess most akin to Putin).

huckelberry wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:50 pm

Gunnar wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:06 pm

Thanks, Kish. As usual you said it better!

Did I write in English? Have I read about fascism? Wtf?

Why would anybody think I do not see the resonance and the danger? I think it foolish to imagine it could not get worse. It could get a lot worse. History can provide all sorts of examples

If one thinks of Christian nationalism one might think Cromwell or maybe a German Nazified church. One might consider that now that Christian nationalism is only a bit of the stew and may be only a convenient sideline.

Well, they are not throwing folks they don't like out of airplanes.......Well true but the observation does not incline me to like Trump (whose location among the poles of Putin, Hitler, or antichrist is not known by me but I would guess most akin to Putin).

I certainly don't think you don't see the resonances and the danger. We are agreed that it could get a lot worse, and, I think, that it most probably will before it gets better. This is what frightens me. It's true that they haven't yet been throwing folks they don't like out of airplanes, but deporting people they don't like to harsh foreign prisons without even due process first is likely to endanger the lives of at least a few innocent people. It is certain to result in in great injustice, hardship and sorrow to them and their loved ones.

Gunnar wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 9:10 pm

huckelberry wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:50 pm

Did I write in English? Have I read about fascism? Wtf?

Why would anybody think I do not see the resonance and the danger? I think it foolish to imagine it could not get worse. It could get a lot worse. History can provide all sorts of examples

If one thinks of Christian nationalism one might think Cromwell or maybe a German Nazified church. One might consider that now that Christian nationalism is only a bit of the stew and may be only a convenient sideline.

Well, they are not throwing folks they don't like out of airplanes.......Well true but the observation does not incline me to like Trump (whose location among the poles of Putin, Hitler, or antichrist is not known by me but I would guess most akin to Putin).

I certainly don't think you don't see the resonances and the danger. We are agreed that it could get a lot worse, and, I think, that it most probably will before it gets better. This is what frightens me. It's true that they haven't yet been throwing folks they don't like out of airplanes, but deporting people they don't like to harsh foreign prisons without even due process first is likely to endanger the lives of at least a few innocent people. It is certain to result in in great injustice, hardship and sorrow to them and their loved ones.

Gunnar, I agree the deportation without due process is an injustice doing harm to our expectation of just laws. I think the neglect on bringing the fellow back is impeachable but impeachment action would be counterproductive before sufficient support gathers to convict.

Resistance is an ongoing process.

Why question that it is fascism? It is definitely a form of fascism. Make America Great Again—the call to an ideal mythical past that can only be recovered by the movement. The blaming of others who are different for all that’s wrong. It’s right there. What else are you looking for?

No need to make up a new category, when it looks and quacks like fascism.

We're PAYING El Salvador to hold Mr. Garcia?