Trumpism and Multi-dimensional Lying

[Kishkumen]

The following quote is taken from a substack piece written by a controversial right-wing author who has been accused (justly, it seems to me) of being a white supremacist. His name is Richard Hanania. Despite (or maybe because of) the fact that he has disgusting views, Hanania seems to understand pretty well how Trumpism works:

But there are casual observers of politics who may be inclined towards supporting Republicans and can be excused for not knowing how bad his policies are or how morally bankrupt the administration is. Over the first few months, it’s become clear on several issues that one of the things that makes the Trump movement so difficult to criticize is that it engages in multidimensional lying. They will lie about the “problem” they are trying to solve. They will lie about the effects of their policies. They will lie about the justification for that policy, and its legal basis. They will then pick examples of things they have done to solve the problem that will also be lies. They will lie about how the policy is working, and even what the courts have been saying about their policy. These aren’t misrepresentations that leave out context. We are talking about bald-faced lies by any definition, any one of which would be a scandal in most other administrations. It’s difficult to prove in most cases whether any particular official knows that he is lying, but the inference can often be made, and whether someone is a liar or a true-believing cultist in any particular instance, the effects are usually the same.

One of my failures in not seeing before the election how bad Trump would be was not grasping the extent to which moral nihilism now characterizes his movement. The casual political observer might find himself with a similar problem. Imagine the Trump administration has five talking points on issue X. A critic says that each one of those is a lie. That on its face may be difficult to believe. Surely the Trump administration could find one or two things that are true to say about its policy! It can’t just all be lies from top to bottom. The critics telling us that the Trump administration lies all the time, and that conservative media repeats these lies no matter how absurd, must just be hysterical.

Under previous presidents, these were reasonable assumptions. They would even be reasonable under most dictatorships, which do not try to bend reality to anywhere near the extent MAGA does. Yet, here they are simply not. You can assume maximum bad faith from this administration, and still underestimate how poorly thought out and ungrounded in reality its policies are, because the Trump movement will surprise you by expanding the limits of your understanding of how stupid and dishonest human beings can be. Trump is an outlier in how bad his character is, he’s taken over half the political spectrum, and there has been a selection effect within the conservative movement in which only the most corrupt can stay in good standing within MAGA.

See https://www.richardhanania.com/p/the-fi ... enezuelans

[canpakes]

This is why I have stated prior that Democrats are at a disadvantage compared to MAGA in that they don’t lie hard enough.

[Kishkumen]

This is why I have stated prior that Democrats are at a disadvantage compared to MAGA in that they don’t lie hard enough.

It is interesting to wonder what a lying arms race would look like here. In the past I have wondered what would happen if some folks, say, ones from Anonymous, were to sew anti-Trump propaganda and conspiracy theories on the internet to try to pull his people away from him. I don't have it in me, but it is an interesting possibility I am surprised has not received greater attention and effort.

[Kishkumen]

Damn this piece is so well conceived. You really just need to read it for yourself. Here's another taste:

Instead of just asserting all of this, I’m going to show you how this works in the example of Venezuelans sent to El Salvador. You can do something very similar with DOGE, and other administration initiatives. But the Venezuelan case is enough to make the general point. No one has the time to uncover and understand all of Trump’s lies. The hope here is that through a deep dive into this particular issue, you can understand the failings of MAGA more generally.

I’m focusing on the lies told. But we should not lose sight of the ultimate goal of the administration here: to lock up innocent men in labor camps. This is so self-evidently evil and wrong that there isn’t much left to say. An article on why this is evil and wrong seems kind of pointless, so I focus on the lies told in the service of that goal, in the hopes that it will change how people see the administration on every other issue going forward, as well as its supporters. The fact that they lie all the time and the fact that they have evil goals are not unrelated. They’re both products of a movement that is morally and ethically corrupt to its core.

[Gadianton]

Spot-on observations throughout. Not to mention many of his most ardent supporters including VP all acknowledged the very same thing prior to admitting defeat and joining. But this quirk of his personality, to lie and lie and lie, per his VP, isn't a new thing with him.

Take my right-wing friend and his nonsense right-wing emails. Let me point out that the right-wing email phenomena is a multi-faceted creature. I used to get these in the 90s from certain people, when email was just coming out. My mom and dad used to get them, my dad was gullible and would get spun up and my mom would tell me, "I check Snopes."

The right-wing email is a convergence of 3 phenomena. Conservative politics. Spam. And hope. In the 90s, a driver was to forward this email to everyone you know, let's see how many times it can circulate the world. Back then, for a middle-aged novice computer user, that was interesting. If something were shocking or if something were well-wishing, then there is a greater incentive to forward. "send this to everyone you know and good things will come your way." Obviously, lies are shocking, and so there you go, survival of the fittest memes are the most shocking and unlikely to be true. Not always political, but over time, that became the center of gravity. This email receiving and forwarding was kind of a daily contact ritual between friends. The lower the education, obviously, the more entertaining and meaningful. when my right-wing friend began forwarding them to me for a while, some of the nonsense literally originated in the early 00's, and gets slightly modified and resent, and people with intellects in decline get spun up over the same lie with slight modifications twice a year for decades. Some are Bill Clinton Lewinsky jokes going on for longer than that.

I think this email phenomena is crucial. Yes, the Internet has taken it to the next level. But if you look at the most hardcore MAGA supporters, they are the folks who were entering middle age when the Internet came out. This preparation for the coming of Trump was a total accident. No conspiracy whatsoever. If somebody would have been clever, then the conservative party would have accepted him long before they did.

But here's something else I think is fascinating about it. While pre-MAGA had been lying themselves into hysterics for a couple decades before Trump, Trump's "magic" taking advantage of it has been hard to replicate. Look at how badly Kari Lake and even Elon Musk have done trying to get in on the gravy train of obvious and dumb lies. DeSantis has failed with it also. Marjorie Taylor-Greene has done better, but, it didn't get her to VP candidacy either. Vance doesn't seen to try to go beyond lie supporter. It's like, people know Trump is lying, they've been circulating lies for years, but Trump is the only one allowed to be liar in chief for some reason. It probably, biologically, has something to do with lying being unsustainable, and so even among liars, there must be rules that limit who is the one allowed to tell the lie.

And so weirdly, even though the lie-fest began long before Trump, when we're finally rid of him for good, will somebody else be able to take his place? I've always thought this is unlikely. I hope I'm right about that. But it's almost like, going that route would be like a scientist trying to promote themselve as the next Einstein.

[Kishkumen]

Spot-on observations throughout. Not to mention many of his most ardent supporters including VP all acknowledged the very same thing prior to admitting defeat and joining. But this quirk of his personality, to lie and lie and lie, per his VP, isn't a new thing with him.

Take my right-wing friend and his nonsense right-wing emails. Let me point out that the right-wing email phenomena is a multi-faceted creature. I used to get these in the 90s from certain people, when email was just coming out. My mom and dad used to get them, my dad was gullible and would get spun up and my mom would tell me, "I check Snopes."

The right-wing email is a convergence of 3 phenomena. Conservative politics. Spam. And hope. In the 90s, a driver was to forward this email to everyone you know, let's see how many times it can circulate the world. Back then, for a middle-aged novice computer user, that was interesting. If something were shocking or if something were well-wishing, then there is a greater incentive to forward. "send this to everyone you know and good things will come your way." Obviously, lies are shocking, and so there you go, survival of the fittest memes are the most shocking and unlikely to be true. Not always political, but over time, that became the center of gravity. This email receiving and forwarding was kind of a daily contact ritual between friends. The lower the education, obviously, the more entertaining and meaningful. when my right-wing friend began forwarding them to me for a while, some of the nonsense literally originated in the early 00's, and gets slightly modified and resent, and people with intellects in decline get spun up over the same lie with slight modifications twice a year for decades. Some are Bill Clinton Lewinsky jokes going on for longer than that.

I think this email phenomena is crucial. Yes, the Internet has taken it to the next level. But if you look at the most hardcore MAGA supporters, they are the folks who were entering middle age when the Internet came out. This preparation for the coming of Trump was a total accident. No conspiracy whatsoever. If somebody would have been clever, then the conservative party would have accepted him long before they did.

But here's something else I think is fascinating about it. While pre-MAGA had been lying themselves into hysterics for a couple decades before Trump, Trump's "magic" taking advantage of it has been hard to replicate. Look at how badly Kari Lake and even Elon Musk have done trying to get in on the gravy train of obvious and dumb lies. DeSantis has failed with it also. Marjorie Taylor-Greene has done better, but, it didn't get her to VP candidacy either. Vance doesn't seen to try to go beyond lie supporter. It's like, people know Trump is lying, they've been circulating lies for years, but Trump is the only one allowed to be liar in chief for some reason. It probably, biologically, has something to do with lying being unsustainable, and so even among liars, there must be rules that limit who is the one allowed to tell the lie.

And so weirdly, even though the lie-fest began long before Trump, when we're finally rid of him for good, will somebody else be able to take his place? I've always thought this is unlikely. I hope I'm right about that. But it's almost like, going that route would be like a scientist trying to promote themselve as the next Einstein.

Fascinating, Dean Robbers! I recall getting these email from relatives back in the early aughts. I thought the emails were insane, and I trashed them. I would say that I was of the wrong generation to be caught in this web, but then in 2024 Gen X voted enthusiastically for Trump, so I don’t know!