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Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:43 pm
by Chap
Us Americanophile foreigners are beginning to ask what kind of weird country has taken the place of the law-governed constitution-respecting states-right-sensitive country we used to know.

We notice the threats by Trump about what will happen to any "no Kings" people who dare to protest at his big beautiful birthday parade. How long till he proclaims himself President for Life? When I typed that question, I thought it was a joke. But on reflection, I think a lot of MAGA people would really love that idea ...

How far will this go?

From the Washington Post today:

4 questions about what happens next in L.A.
Amber Phillips
By Amber Phillips
The protests of immigration raids in Los Angeles have been relatively quiet for a day, but as troops continue to mass in the city, legal and military experts warn that this could be the beginning of tensions that could threaten the health of American democracy.

“This is the first, perhaps of many,” President Donald Trump said Tuesday about what’s happening in Los Angeles. “You know, we didn’t attack this one very strongly.”

Here are four questions experts have about what happens next.

1. What are troops actually doing in Los Angeles?
Military officials are usually circumspect about having troops engage with civilians unless absolutely necessary. Trump has deployed thousands of troops, from National Guard to Marines, to Los Angeles, and it’s unclear what those troops are doing in Los Angeles.

When troops are called in to help with civil unrest, the National Guard is typically used to support local police, such as by guarding federal facilities or guiding traffic. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth suggested the troops were there to help Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents carry out deportations.

Legal experts worry that Americans’ right to protest could be more clearly undermined if soldiers start arresting protesters — something the military could do if Trump invokes an 1800s law called the Insurrection Act that declares there is a violent “insurrection” only the military can control.

Kimberly Wehle, a professor at the University of Baltimore School of Law and author of the newsletter “Simple Politics” argued that troops were going to ultimately engage in activities that are barred.

“It’s going to cross the line,” she said.

Trump toyed with the possibility of an “insurrection” in a Tuesday news conference when he repeatedly used the word when talking about the Los Angeles protests. Local law enforcement has described the activities as mostly peaceful, “but you could also use the word,” Trump said.

2. Does it matter what role troops are playing?
The optics are less nuanced than the specifics of troops’ orders: The president sent thousands of soldiers to city streets when civilians protested a marquee Trump policy: his efforts to deport as many undocumented immigrants as possible.

Several legal experts say that fact alone could have a chilling effect on Americans who may want to protest the Trump administration across the country. “Will people meaningfully fear speaking out and protesting against Trump now?” said Wehle. “My guess is yes.”

Another show of state-like force will come Saturday, when Army tanks will rumble down Washington, D.C., streets for the Army’s 250th anniversary, which is also Trump’s 79th birthday. Trump opponents have planned No Kings protests in thousands of cities around the country for the same day, and experts I talked to are closely watching if there are any confrontations.

“If he thinks he has succeeded in L.A., I don’t see why he wouldn’t try it elsewhere,” said Josh Chafetz, a constitutional law professor at Georgetown University.

Trump suggested during his Tuesday comments that the military would engage if necessary, though it’s not at all clear it will be.

“For those people that want to protest,” Trump warned, “they’re going to be met with very big force.”

3. Will Trump send troops to other protests?
Even before Saturday, demonstrations against ICE raids are forming in major cities such as San Francisco, Austin and New York.

A memo that the Trump administration issued to send the National Guard to Los Angeles is vague enough that several legal experts say Trump could try to use it to justify sending troops to any protest, in any city, no matter how small or peaceful the demonstration.

Trump used the military to disperse racial justice protesters in D.C. in 2020, with helicopters hovering over protesters’ heads. Another legal expert says what’s happening in Los Angeles is an escalation even from that.

“I think it’s one of the scariest things that a president can do,” said Ariela Rosenberg, a national security expert with Protect Democracy. “Do they use this extremely blank check they gave themselves to deploy the National Guard in the smallest of circumstances?”

More force also has the potential to whip up a national backlash to Trump, who is increasingly drawing national attention with aggressive tactics to deport more migrants.

“Eventually that produces a backlash,” said David Alexander Bateman, a constitutional law expert at Cornell University. “And if that spreads nationally, then we might be seeing the first major popular opposition to Trump emerge.”

4. Is any of this legal?
California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) is suing the Trump administration, arguing that Trump manufactured a crisis to send in troops. Legal experts I talked to are split about whether he has a case.

All of them agree what Trump is doing in Los Angeles is an unusual and sweeping use of executive power, but some say Trump may be within his right to declare a national emergency there — a tactic he frequently uses to consolidate federal power on everything from immigration to health.

“But just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should,” said Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney now with the University of Michigan Law School.

Others point to a federal law — the Posse Comitatus Act — that restricts when the president can use the military for domestic law enforcement. “It says no use of the military in civilian spheres, unless absolutely urgent,” Wehle said. “Protests do not count.”

She and other legal experts also think that protesters’ First Amendment rights that guarantee, among other things, the freedom of speech and assembly have been violated by such a show of state force.

And they warn it may continue.

“The line between democracy and authoritarianism is a sliding scale, and we’ve just slid farther toward authoritarianism,” said Kim Lane Scheppele, who studies the rise and fall of constitutional governments at Princeton University.

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 12:59 am
by Moksha
Just wait till Trump has those soldiers goose-stepping.

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 1:59 am
by Kishkumen
I would say that the Posse Comitatus Act strictly forbids it. Unfortunately we have a Supreme Court on vacay and infested with authoritarians when it is in session. Basically, we’re screwed, and you can read about how wonderful our new authoritarian state is in the posts of Ajax, Ceeboo, Markk, and HoH.

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 3:22 am
by honorentheos
“I think it’s one of the scariest things that a president can do,” said Ariela Rosenberg, a national security expert with Protect Democracy. “Do they use this extremely blank check they gave themselves to deploy the National Guard in the smallest of circumstances?”

Yep.

Next domino: the insurrection act of 1807.

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 7:45 am
by Gunnar
Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Jun 11, 2025 1:59 am
I would say that the Posse Comitatus Act strictly forbids it. Unfortunately we have a Supreme Court on vacay and infested with authoritarians when it is in session. Basically, we’re screwed, and you can read about how wonderful our new authoritarian state is in the posts of Ajax, Ceeboo, Markk, and HoH.
Thanks to the long running scheme that Sheldon Whitehouse has been courageously and diligently trying to warn us about, by totally avaricious and unscrupulous oligarchs whose overriding goal has been to turn the entire judicial system, especially the Supreme Court, into a wholly owned tool entirely beholden to their own ambitions to enhance their own wealth and power beyond any reasonable limit, to hell with anyone else and even the lawful constraints mandated by the U.S. Constitution! I have read Whitehouse's book, The Scheme and watched his entire video series based on it. It should scare the bejabbers out of any honest person genuinely concerned about individual freedom, human rights and democracy! It is alarming how close hard-right, religiously fanatical and totally corrupt would-be tyrants, who are already obscenely wealthy, have already come to fully realizing their scheme.

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 11:46 am
by Kishkumen
Add to this Yarvin, Thiel, Musk and other authoritarian tech bros, and you have a formula for civilizational collapse.

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 11:51 am
by Gunnar
Adam Schiff's remarks about the deployment of the national guard and marines to the L.A. demonstration are right on. Trump's actions have no justifications other than deliberately and cruelly exacerbating the situation and public danger (especially to immigrants) in order to detract the voting populace from hugely unpopular policies and actions that he and his minions desperately push upon most Americans that will help facilitate massive tax cuts for the very wealthy who neither need nor deserve them.

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 2:10 pm
by Kishkumen
Gunnar wrote:
Wed Jun 11, 2025 11:51 am
Adam Schiff's remarks about the deployment of the national guard and marines to the L.A. demonstration are right on. Trump's actions have no justifications other than deliberately and cruelly exacerbating the situation and public danger (especially to immigrants) in order to detract the voting populace from hugely unpopular policies and actions that he and his minions desperately push upon most Americans that will help facilitate massive tax cuts for the very wealthy who neither need nor deserve them.
No matter how you slice it, Trump is engaging in a full-court press to overthrow Constitutional government.

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 5:17 pm
by Chap
Markk - remind me again: when a mob was attacking the Capitol on that January 6, shouting "Hang Mike Pence" and trying to break through the security barriers and locked doors to get at the Senators and Representatives to stop the election* being certified, why didn't Trump think that warranted calling out the National Guard?

Because he didn't think it was a dangerous enough incident?

Or what was it? I mean, he must have had a good reason, surely?

So just remind us now, please.



*You know, the election that Trump lost. That election.

[edited once for typo]

Re: Trump uses US army to quell protesters - is this legal?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 5:43 pm
by Kishkumen
Chap wrote:
Wed Jun 11, 2025 5:17 pm
Markk - remind me again: when a mob was attacking the Capitol on that January 6, shouting "Hang Mike Pence" and trying to break through the security barriers and locked doors to get at the Senators and Representatives to stop the election* being certified, why didn't Trump think that warranted calling out the National Guard?

Because he didn't think it was a dangerous enough incident?

Or what was it? I mean, he must have had a good reason, surely?

So just remind us no, please.



*You know, the election that Trump lost. That election.
The conclusion that Trump only calculates his own personal advantage in his use of power is inescapable. He did not care if Nancy Pelosi was zip-tied and beaten by insurrectionists. Mike Pence might have hung from those gallows for all he cared. In Trump's twisted little mind, all that mattered was him. He knew he had lost. He knew that he was launching an insurrection. The safety and integrity of the Constitutional Republic and its representatives be damned. It was all about him.

This was one situation in which he had legal authority to call in the National Guard without involving any governor. Here was a situation in which the most critical function of the government was occurring in its most hallowed of federal properties. Capitol Hill is the temple of democracy. He was happy to watch the mob he launched tear into it, deface it, and pummel to a pulp any law enforcement that got in their way. He sat glued to the tv instead of protecting the Capitol and the Congress as it performed one of its most sacred functions--to facilitate the peaceful transfer of power from one executive to another, both duly elected.

It is one of the Crown Jewels of our system, and he shat upon it. Imperial Rome could not have dreamed of such an achievement. The Founding Fathers knew it. They designed our Constitution to surpass any system of government up to that time. They largely succeeded, and now Trump is dragging us back, tearing that achievement away, trampling it in the dust, sullying it with his fever dreams of dictatorial rule.

Nothing that is happening in LA really concerns law and order. It is all in service of Trump's lust for power.