American Greatness is American Goodness

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Gunnar
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Gunnar »

canpakes wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:29 pm
Gunnar, the title of this thread perfectly encapsulates what ‘American Greatness’ should really embody. Thank you for that.
Thank MeDotOrg. He is the one who started it.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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canpakes
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by canpakes »

Gunnar wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:45 am
canpakes wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:29 pm
Gunnar, the title of this thread perfectly encapsulates what ‘American Greatness’ should really embody. Thank you for that.
Thank MeDotOrg. He is the one who started it.
You’re right. I don’t know how I goofed that one up, lol.
: D

OK, MdO - thank you.
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Bret Ripley
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Bret Ripley »

Gunnar wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:41 pm
The Mouse that Roared.
Let it not be lost on the discerning reader that the MacGuffin in this fine example of cinematic crème de menthe is the "Q-Bomb."

If only we had listened.
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Gunnar »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:48 pm
Gunnar wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:41 pm
The Mouse that Roared.
Let it not be lost on the discerning reader that the MacGuffin in this fine example of cinematic crème de menthe is the "Q-Bomb."

If only we had listened.
Keen and timely observation! That thought had not previously occurred to me.

by the way, Thanks for adding the word "MacGuffin" to my vocabulary. I had to look it up to fully understand the meaning of your post. I'm glad I did. I find it a welcome addition. :)
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Some Schmo
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Some Schmo »

I've asked this question here several times before, and I never get an answer: what is it about America that makes Americans think it's so great? It's "the greatest country in the world," apparently.

One of the reason I've asked this is because what is the country, if not for the organizing principles of that country? Sure, you can site climate, or the scenery, or even its economic strength as factors that contribute to a favorable country, but it's always seemed like there was a disconnect between people's love of this country and their utter disdain for their system of government.

So I guess I like this fresh take, MDO. I would say there are many things about American culture that make it a great country. Americans can be very generous. I'm not sure I'd say they were inherently any more generous than the average citizen of any other country, but I would say that generosity is a cultural marker in the US.

Of course, I want to believe in American generosity, but I have to admit that my view of the average American has suffered significantly in the last four years. A lot of Americans are great. A significant number really aren't.
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Bret Ripley
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Bret Ripley »

Gunnar wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:07 pm
Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:48 pm
Let it not be lost on the discerning reader that the MacGuffin in this fine example of cinematic crème de menthe is the "Q-Bomb."

If only we had listened.
Keen and timely observation! That thought had not previously occurred to me.

by the way, Thanks for adding the word "MacGuffin" to my vocabulary. I had to look it up to fully understand the meaning of your post. I'm glad I did. I find it a welcome addition. :)
Hey, Gunnar! I thought about you last night while watching "In Concert at the Hollywood Bowl" which included a performance of 'Ode to Joy' (Beethoven's 9th is my favorite piece from any genre). What was weird, though, is they displayed English subtitles and I kind of wish they hadn't. Please understand that my German is limited to what I could glean from Hogan's Heroes and until last night could only imagine what the lyrics meant.

A snippet:

"Kisses she gave us and grapevines,
A friend, proven in death.
Salaciousness was given to the worm
And the cherub stands before God."

Now, tell me that doesn't read like it was written by a drunk writer of fortune-cookie advice who landed a writing gig at a psychedelic greeting card company.
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Moksha
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Moksha »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:48 pm
Gunnar wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:41 pm
The Mouse that Roared.
Let it not be lost on the discerning reader that the MacGuffin in this fine example of cinematic crème de menthe is the "Q-Bomb."

If only we had listened.
Plus the important point that the Q-bomb had been a dud all along. One difference between the lie of the Q-bomb and QAnon is that the Q-bomb brought peace and the lies of QAnon bring division and violence.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Gunnar
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Gunnar »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:47 pm
'Ode to Joy' (Beethoven's 9th is my favorite piece from any genre). What was weird, though, is they displayed English subtitles and I kind of wish they hadn't. Please understand that my German is limited to what I could glean from Hogan's Heroes and until last night could only imagine what the lyrics meant.

A snippet:

"Kisses she gave us and grapevines,
A friend, proven in death.
Salaciousness was given to the worm
And the cherub stands before God."

Now, tell me that doesn't read like it was written by a drunk writer of fortune-cookie advice who landed a writing gig at a psychedelic greeting card company.
I see your point there, but to tell the truth, when I listen to or sing with Beethoven's 9th, what thrills me the most is the music, its harmonies and rhythms. I was hardly even aware of the words except making sure I learned to pronounce them correctly. I hardly even cared what the words actually meant. There are other pieces of choral music whose words moved me deeply (Handel's Messiah, for example), but in the case of Beethoven's 9th it was the sheer, overwhelming power of the sound of all those voices harmonizing that awed me rather than the actual meaning of the words sung. Maybe this means I am somewhat shallow, but the actual meaning of the words, though certainly not trivial, somehow seemed at least a bit less impressive to me than the awesome beauty of the musical qualities of the piece.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Gunnar »

Moksha wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:54 am
Plus the important point that the Q-bomb had been a dud all along. One difference between the lie of the Q-bomb and QAnon is that the Q-bomb brought peace and the lies of QAnon bring division and violence.
Great point!
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Bret Ripley
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Re: American Greatness is American Goodness

Post by Bret Ripley »

Gunnar wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:27 am
Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:47 pm
'Ode to Joy' (Beethoven's 9th is my favorite piece from any genre). What was weird, though, is they displayed English subtitles and I kind of wish they hadn't. Please understand that my German is limited to what I could glean from Hogan's Heroes and until last night could only imagine what the lyrics meant.

A snippet:

"Kisses she gave us and grapevines,
A friend, proven in death.
Salaciousness was given to the worm
And the cherub stands before God."

Now, tell me that doesn't read like it was written by a drunk writer of fortune-cookie advice who landed a writing gig at a psychedelic greeting card company.
I see your point there, but to tell the truth, when I listen to or sing with Beethoven's 9th, what thrills me the most is the music, its harmonies and rhythms. I was hardly even aware of the words except making sure I learned to pronounce them correctly. I hardly even cared what the words actually meant. There are other pieces of choral music whose words moved me deeply (Handel's Messiah, for example), but in the case of Beethoven's 9th it was the sheer, overwhelming power of the sound of all those voices harmonizing that awed me rather than the actual meaning of the words sung. Maybe this means I am somewhat shallow, but the actual meaning of the words, though certainly not trivial, somehow seemed at least a bit less impressive to me than the awesome beauty of the musical qualities of the piece.
Very well said, and if that makes you shallow I'm more than happy to be shallow right along with you.

Back in the alt.religion.Mormon days a friend posted a wonderful description of the 4th movement that you may have appreciated ... I wonder if I can find it ...

Well, holy cow, there it is -- from 2009 (the Beethoven bit starts after the first few paragraphs): https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religio ... 39l0c8HPEJ
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