Certain people can't ever get it right

[Morley]

I'm not buying mg's 'aw shucks' routine.

To my shame, I think that I do buy it--every. frickin. time. And as each time plays out, to its inevitable and inexorable conclusion, I always arrive at the place where I'd like to kick my own dumb ass down the road and back.

[Morley]

Thank you to both Honor and Gad. Well done.

[Lem]

I'm not buying mg's 'aw shucks' routine.

To my shame, I think that I do buy it--every. frickin. time. And as each time plays out, to its inevitable and inexorable conclusion, I always arrive at the place where I'd like to kick my own dumb ass down the road and back.

That's because you are a kind and thoughtful person! No shame in that. I'm just coming from a place where grindael, may he rest in peace, multiple times, both publicly and privately, shared his anguish at the way mg treated him, causing me to research the situation after that, learning much about trolls and the damage they do, how they do it, and why. There is absolutely no question in my mind that mg posts in order to disrupt and antagonize. The things he has said over the years to grindael are unforgivable. The real problem is, he walks away in anonymity, after hurting real people. It is unconscionable, but it seems to be a pattern that he can't let go.

[mentalgymnast]

The earth is round and flat at the same time.This is obvious. That it is round appears indisputable; that it is flat is our common experience, also indisputable. The globe does not supersede the map; the map does not distort the globe.
-Jeanette Winterson

It’s where we set our viewfinder that’s the key. I am the earth. I am round and flat at the same time.

It’s interesting to consider the fact that if any one or more of you had testimonies of the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that Jesus is the Christ and that God lives, your viewfinder would capture me differently. And what a difference that would make.

As it is, your viewfinder is set differently.

Regards,
MG

[Chap]

The earth is round and flat at the same time.This is obvious. That it is round appears indisputable; that it is flat is our common experience, also indisputable. The globe does not supersede the map; the map does not distort the globe.
-Jeanette Winterson

It’s where we set our viewfinder that’s the key. I am the earth. I am round and flat at the same time.

It’s interesting to consider the fact that if any one or more of you had testimonies of the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that Jesus is the Christ and that God lives, your viewfinder would capture me differently. And what a difference that would make.

As it is, your viewfinder is set differently.

Regards,
MG

Two points:

1. You write as if the choice as to 'where you set your viewfinder' in the matter of the truth or falsehood of your religious beliefs was to made independently of what you end up seeing through it. Would you apply that, for instance, one making a decision as to whether an applicant for a bank loan had an acceptable credit record? No, you would look at the objective facts about their previous borrowings, repayments, defaults and court judgements. Rational people, like rational lenders, try to ask of a given religious belief system proposed to them 'are these truth claims in fact true?' before deciding to adopt it.

2. It is surprising that you have not noticed the circularity in your statements above: adopt the viewpoint that the Mormon religion is true, and then you will hold the view that the Mormon religion is true, and that MG is therefore a perfectly reasonable guy.

As you will recall we established earlier on, you are having ageing problems that give you difficulties in recalling things you have read, and in expressing yourself clearly. This seems to be a case in point. You are just wasting people's time posting stuff like this, just like you would be wasting other players' time if you insisted on joining a basketball game where you kept on fumbling the ball and failed to see clearly where the opposing team's basket was located.

How about posting on some less demanding topics instead?

[honorentheos]

2. It is surprising that you have not noticed the circularity in your statements above: adopt the viewpoint that the Mormon religion is true, and then you will hold the view that the Mormon religion is true, and that MG is therefore a perfectly reasonable guy.

Exactly.

As you will recall we established earlier on, you are having ageing problems that give you difficulties in recalling things you have read, and in expressing yourself clearly. This seems to be a case in point. You are just wasting people's time posting stuff like this, just like you would be wasting other players' time if you insisted on joining a basketball game where you kept on fumbling the ball and failed to see clearly where the opposing team's basket was located.

How about posting on some less demanding topics instead?

I don't agree with attacking MG in this way or for having been open. Perhaps we can just focus on the facts and issues as presented.

[Lem]

[I don't agree with attacking MG ... for having been open.

You think mg was being 'open'? That's beyond naïve.

[honorentheos]

[I don't agree with attacking MG ... for having been open.

You think mg was being 'open'? That's beyond naïve.

Talking about his information retention was a moment of openness.

[Lem]

You think mg was being 'open'? That's beyond naïve.

Talking about his information retention was a moment of openness.

No it wasn't. He was backed into a corner and used a technique to deflect. He's done that many, many times.

[Morley]

It’s interesting to consider the fact that if any one or more of you had testimonies of the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that Jesus is the Christ and that God lives, your viewfinder would capture me differently. And what a difference that would make.

As it is, your viewfinder is set differently.

I'm going to say this once more, MG, and then bow out.

It's not your larger set of beliefs that people argue against. It's the way you discuss those beliefs and the things you consider to be evidence. The set of assumptions you thrust upon others, and the intellectual contortions you ask us to tolerate and endorse, are what we find to be both cloying and ridiculous.

In my own life, I'm surrounded by a diverse set of beliefs. My wife self-identifies as a Shi'a Muslim, one of my daughters is Jewish, another daughter is an atheist, and my beloved sister is as orthodox of a Mormon as you will ever find. None of us is afraid to discuss religion.

Not one of us accuses the others with having something wrong with their brain. We don't suggest that one or another of us is pushing away nuance and gorging on binary. We don't complain that the others' world view is going to irrevocably damage the larger society. We don't say that, if you only believed in a creator God and scripture, you would get it; nor do we complain that, if you would abandon your silly God, you would understand. We all recognize and acknowledge the gaping holes in our own belief systems.

Our viewfinders are functioning just fine. You think this about prejudice against a 'creator God' and Mormonism. It's not. It's a justified predisposition against bad logic, ill-conceived arguments, and disingenuous assertions.

I don't know what I can write, or what others can say, to get this across to you. Probably nothing.

.