I’m afraid I’m not quote the determinist that you are. That everything is cause and effect with little or no real choice involved. Folks have gone round and round on this topic. May I suggest a podcast you might like to listen to in its entirety?dastardly stem wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:01 pmThe issue we have here is humans are more complex than this. Of course feelings of meaninglessness can lead to criminal and harmful behavior. Religion seems to get a win here because it's so dominant. But we fail to acknowledge people find meaning outside of religion all the time. And, it may be that people feel meaninglessness because others are telling them without religion there is no meaning. You seem to suggest this all shows fee will plays a factor. But your view doesn't account for much in terms of humanity. What drives someone to addiction? Well, of course it's different for everyone. The problem is if a meth addict, we'll say, has a chance to relive his life, with every single parameter the same, he'd get addicted to meth every time. Every environmental factor from his birth remains given him without choice. If his mom is addicted to meth, and he eventually gets addicted, well, he didn't choose his mom, nor her situation. He also did not choose his genes and hormones. He didn't choose his brain and how it's wired. Its all put upon him. And from his birth on, his brain is fed data from the environment around him. You may think he has a choice freely to choose whatever he wants. But he's limited to the options given him whenever faced with a decision. And each time he's deciding something it's a factor of what he is. If his brain settles on something, the options and reasons presented are those which he's been fed. They aren't more than that because you have a feeling that anyone can choose whatever they want. No, we're all just limited to what's been given us.mentalgymnast wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:25 pm
I wonder if Victor Frankl would agree. He makes the argument that all humans do have free will, it just takes a certain kind of person to exercise it, and make the choices that others around them do not. He found that purpose is what drives people. He found that there was a strong relationship between “meaninglessness” and criminal behaviors, addictions and depression.
https://www.studymode.com/essays/Viktor ... 90802.html
https://www.pursuit-of-happiness.org/hi ... or-frankl/
So at least at the level where we choose purpose over meaninglessness we have free will. It’s not an illusion.
At least in the concentration camps it wasn’t.
Free will as an illusion, I think, is a dangerous position to take. But if you take accountability out of the picture and make some other tweaks, I can see why you might flirt with this idea.
Regards,
MG
Extend this thinking to the rest of us and its easy to see free will is an illusion.
https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer ... an-people/
In the latter half Michael and Jason have a short discussion on free will. It’s worth the listen. Michael is more or less deterministic. Jason is not. You might enjoy it.
Regards,
MG