Personal accountability/responsibility

[_Yoda]

"Is it in the individuals', groups', or orginizations' interest to stop or reduce resistance to self-criticism, and be open and honest in their introspections, and accept personal/group responsibility for difficulties they may experience with others?" And, if so, why?

Yes. It is important because we only have the ability to change ourselves. We can't change other people. We can be an influence in someone else's life, but any change has to come from within that person.

The only person we ultimately have control over is ourselves.

[_wenglund]

OK, Wade, this is what you, yourself deemed as the primary purpose of this thread:

I am trying to create a generic litmus test that we each can openly and honestly apply to ourselves to see if we suffer from these conditions.

I think it's fairly safe to say that most of us suffer from at least some of the conditions on the list we're compiling.

My question is....after this "litmus test" is compiled, then what?

Do you want to discuss solutions? Do you want us to discuss solutions?

I prefer first that we all discuss reasons why it may be advantageous to eliminate or diminish the fault in ourselves before moving on to discuss solutions.

What is the overall outcome you are trying to achieve here?

The benefitial (to all parties concerned) recognition, acknowledgement, and elimination or dimunision of this personal fault in ourselves.

If you want people to honestly participate in a study, you need to be honest with them about what you're hoping to achieve.

This isn't a "study". It is a "group discussion". And, while it is often helpful to disclose objectives when facilitating a group discussion, it is not necessary that one does so, and certainly not a lack of "honesty" to not disclose the objectives. In fact, some times the objectives may be impeded by their premature disclosure.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Yoda]

OK, Wade. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. From your previous posts elsewhere, I think you can understand why Scratch and I are skeptical of you not having a hidden agenda, but I'm willing to be open about where you're going with this, as long as in the end you don't try to wrap it up in a nice little bow.

My post right before your last one pretty much sums up my feelings on this subject.

Let's see how others feel.

[_MormonMendacity]

If you're going to explore the activity of "self-criticism" perhaps you can help us understand your defintion a little better.

For me, at least, "criticism" has a negative connotation based upon what I consider to be a combination things in my cultural background, including religious and non-religous aspects.

If one dictionary sub-definition (2)like "To judge the merits and faults of; analyze and evaluate." is used, I tend to be less invested in the outcomes than if you are calling me an idiot because I hold a particular view and am not being smart enough to see that I hold emotional attachments to said view.

On to your explanation:

Actually, I am referring to both, but I am focusing more on self-criticism for a reason. And, I am not just talking about self-criticism per se, but open and honest and fair self-criticism. We as human's tend to vasilate between the polar extreems of being too harsh on ourselves and being too easy on ourselves. Neither is open and honest and fair self-criticism.

We as humans also have a tendency to see clearly the faults in others, but are somewhat blind to the same fault in ourselves (the mote and beam as the Savior mentioned).

Inherent within each of us are various self-protective mechanism intended for our survival. Resistence to self-criticism and criticism are, in some ways, one of those self-protective mechanism. However, not always are these self-protective mechanism correctly applied (in terms of intensity and otherwise). And, when incorrectly applied, these protective mechanism can end up doing personal harm and damage. I am exploring this possibility with each of us here.

But, I am getting a wee bit ahead of myself here. For now, do you have any thoughts on what it might look like were an individual or group or organization to be resistent to self-criticism, lack open and honest introspection, and/or fail to accept personal/group responsibility for difficulties they may experience with others? I am trying to create a generic litmus test that we each can openly and honestly apply to ourselves to see if we suffer from these conditions.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You bring up some of the effects of "criticism" when we hold ourselves up to a standard that we think we are unable to achieve or when we identify weakensses in others that we do not see in ourselves.

For myself, I am already put off by your questions because I sense a set up. I think you have a theory and you're going to use us as guinea pigs in proving our failure to blame ourselves because Mormonism is a fraud. Kind of a barrier to self-criticism, huh.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Wade,

Inherent within each of us are various self-protective mechanism intended for our survival. Resistence to self-criticism and criticism are, in some ways, one of those self-protective mechanism. However, not always are these self-protective mechanism correctly applied (in terms of intensity and otherwise). And, when incorrectly applied, these protective mechanism can end up doing personal harm and damage. I am exploring this possibility with each of us here.

I think pretty much everyone would agree that humans can be overly self-critical or resistant to any criticism whatsoever, and both are inappropriate or at least unhealthy.

What specifically are you wanting to explore?

:-)

~dancer~

[_wenglund]

You bring up some of the effects of "criticism" when we hold ourselves up to a standard that we think we are unable to achieve or when we identify weakensses in others that we do not see in ourselves.

For myself, I am already put off by your questions because I sense a set up. I think you have a theory and you're going to use us as guinea pigs in proving our failure to blame ourselves because Mormonism is a fraud. Kind of a barrier to self-criticism, huh.

Setting aside your paranoia for a moment, just think about this: I am asking YOU to to help create a GENERIC list of attributes and characteristic that may be used by YOU to diagnose whether YOU have this fault or not; and I am asking YOU to help suggest reasons why it may be advantageous to correct this fault; and I will be asking YOU for effective ways to correct this fault. So, if there is some supposed "set up" or trap, YOU will be the one creating it and springing it. YOU will be YOUR own supposed "guinea pig". So, the only thing YOU have to fear is YOURSELF. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Hi Wade,

Inherent within each of us are various self-protective mechanism intended for our survival. Resistence to self-criticism and criticism are, in some ways, one of those self-protective mechanism. However, not always are these self-protective mechanism correctly applied (in terms of intensity and otherwise). And, when incorrectly applied, these protective mechanism can end up doing personal harm and damage. I am exploring this possibility with each of us here.

I think pretty much everyone would agree that humans can be overly self-critical or resistant to any criticism whatsoever, and both are inappropriate or at least unhealthy.

What specifically are you wanting to explore? :-) ~dancer~

Examples of the various ways in which the latter may be inappropriate or unhealthy.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_moksha]

So, the only thing YOU have to fear is YOURSELF. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

That and running with scissors and maybe a few thousand other things. However, sign me up. I have always liked self-improvement projects. There won't be any electrical shocks, will there?

[_MormonMendacity]

You bring up some of the effects of "criticism" when we hold ourselves up to a standard that we think we are unable to achieve or when we identify weakensses in others that we do not see in ourselves.

For myself, I am already put off by your questions because I sense a set up. I think you have a theory and you're going to use us as guinea pigs in proving our failure to blame ourselves because Mormonism is a fraud. Kind of a barrier to self-criticism, huh.

Setting aside your paranoia for a moment, just think about this: I am asking YOU to to help create a GENERIC list of attributes and characteristic that may be used by YOU to diagnose whether YOU have this fault or not; and I am asking YOU to help suggest reasons why it may be advantageous to correct this fault; and I will be asking YOU for effective ways to correct this fault. So, if there is some supposed "set up" or trap, YOU will be the one creating it and springing it. YOU will be YOUR own supposed "guinea pig". So, the only thing YOU have to fear is YOURSELF. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Nice. You avoided addressing my concerns and reinforced every one of my fears. But I will bow to the priesthood on this one and volunteer. I hope there are going to be electric shocks.

[_wenglund]

You bring up some of the effects of "criticism" when we hold ourselves up to a standard that we think we are unable to achieve or when we identify weakensses in others that we do not see in ourselves.

For myself, I am already put off by your questions because I sense a set up. I think you have a theory and you're going to use us as guinea pigs in proving our failure to blame ourselves because Mormonism is a fraud. Kind of a barrier to self-criticism, huh.

Setting aside your paranoia for a moment, just think about this: I am asking YOU to to help create a GENERIC list of attributes and characteristic that may be used by YOU to diagnose whether YOU have this fault or not; and I am asking YOU to help suggest reasons why it may be advantageous to correct this fault; and I will be asking YOU for effective ways to correct this fault. So, if there is some supposed "set up" or trap, YOU will be the one creating it and springing it. YOU will be YOUR own supposed "guinea pig". So, the only thing YOU have to fear is YOURSELF. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Nice. You avoided addressing my concerns and reinforced every one of my fears.

...and to think this occurred because I suggested that YOU would be the captain of YOUR own ship, and would thus determine the course and destination YOU choose in relation to this discussion.

Could this be an instance of characteristics/attributes #4 and #14, or perhaps even one that has yet to be mentioned:

19. Irrational fear of self and others.

I will let YOU decide for YOURSELF--that is, if YOU aren't too affraid of YOURSELF. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-