moksha wrote:Vegas, we choose to believe what we want. Even thought it is nice to learn about other Churches and religions so that we may better appreciate them and interact with them, in the end it is our will to believe that drives us. This involves a leap of faith that may sometimes defy conventional logic, but never-the-less, it is an affirmation of what is truly important to us. I do think it is important however that we examine our beliefs to see if they are truly relevant to us. If they are not, then we are free to customize them in order to come up with something totally workable for us.
What you are replying with has no substance and in the end is stating that you can shift belief to whatever will make you feel most comfortable. I think you are saying more than you thought as your statements are very telling of how a cognitive dissonance-controlled mind works.
I was replying with how faith really works. I know exactly what I am saying. We are in the driver's seat with our faith and can choose to believe what we will. God loves us no matter what. Perhaps that is an alternative and potentially unconsidered position for some, but that is what I believe.
I suspect you are working from the position of unresolved issues.
A couple of questions relating to who is in the drivers seat:
1. Where does God PHYSICALLY live? Kolob? 2. You give X percent of your money to the LDS church? 10? 3. In order to go to heaven you have to do what? Know secret handshakes?
it goes on and on. The point being that your faith is not in your control. If it was in your control then MormonCorp would have no reason to exist.
If Faith was in your hands there would BE no organized religion.
Faith, at its core is another way to say "believe in this unbelieveable principal because they say so". They being...drumroll please...THE LDS CHURCH.
Saying you have control over your faith as a Mormon (or Raelian/scientologist/j-dub/etc) is like saying you control your dogs thoughts.
I think you are confusing our individual control of an institution with our own individual beliefs. Once again, we choose to believe what we want. Members of organized religion are not forced into believing every single doctrine and dogma of their faith. Some choose to do so and others do not.
Either your a fringe Mormon or you really don't "GET" the oint of Mormonism. Your telling me that you can play the Ala Carte game in Mormonism? Either your open about dissent against the brethren or your just making up excuses so I don't have a valid point.
How long can I keepup this game of misunderstanding everything Moksha says?
I knew exactly what you were saying and frankly I think you know exactly what I was saying.
You control what you choose to believe in proper Mormonism as much as you can control your taxes. Actually, you control taxes moreso seeing as how you elect those who make tax law.
I think it may be like a Little bit pregnant!!!!!!
You know you can be a little bit pregnant but not all the way pregnant.....
So I think that is what Harmony may be be trying to say....
I am not even a little bit pregnant.....can't be......menopause at 46 has made sure of that...still have hot sex though
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........
VegasRefugee wrote: You control what you choose to believe in proper Mormonism as much as you can control your taxes. Actually, you control taxes moreso seeing as how you elect those who make tax law.
Pahoran tried to tell me several times at FAIR that I was not a real Mormon. Perhaps your understanding of the Church is cut from the same theological cloth as his. However, as Harmony said, we are not limited to either of your interpretations.
by the way, what's with all this need for control? Simply controlling myself seems enough of a burden.
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
VegasRefugee wrote: You control what you choose to believe in proper Mormonism as much as you can control your taxes. Actually, you control taxes moreso seeing as how you elect those who make tax law.
Pahoran tried to tell me several times at FAIR that I was not a real Mormon. Perhaps your understanding of the Church is cut from the same theological cloth as his. However, as Harmony said, we are not limited to either of your interpretations.
I've told you before that I very much respect your ability to find a place within Mormonism where you are comfortable. I couldn't do it, but my hat's off to you for making it work. We all have to find our own way, and I won't begrudge you yours if you afford me the same courtesy.
Runtu wrote: I've told you before that I very much respect your ability to find a place within Mormonism where you are comfortable. I couldn't do it, but my hat's off to you for making it work. We all have to find our own way, and I won't begrudge you yours if you afford me the same courtesy.
We can respect each others positions with appreciation and camaraderie.
So, since the study-prayer-belief principal is the "most perfect" way of determining what is accurate I want believers to choose a religion besides ormonism, scientology, raelianism, branch davidianism, evangelical christianity or even my personal favorite Pastafarianism.
Loran:
Now I'm beginning to understand just a littel bit better why Vegas makes the kinds of statements he makes and stirkes the kind of pose he does here in this forum. Its the Gonja YEAH, YEAH, YEAH!!!!!
So, since the study-prayer-belief principal is the "most perfect" way of determining what is accurate I want believers to choose a religion besides ormonism, scientology, raelianism, branch davidianism, evangelical christianity or even my personal favorite Pastafarianism.
Loran:
Now I'm beginning to understand just a littel bit better why Vegas makes the kinds of statements he makes and stirkes the kind of pose he does here in this forum. Its the Gonja YEAH, YEAH, YEAH!!!!!
I thought "pastafarianism" was something involving fetuccine, not ganja.
I believe in: Sunshine Coffee Alcohol Cats Dogs My loving Spouse My children the smell of rain in the air Free Choice Good Drugs Feminism A good night;s sleep Hot sex Good Porn Freedom Education Law Peace
Loran:
I understand its fruitless, but I just can't help pointing out the very obvious incompatability, in some cases severely so, of some of these values with other values in the same list. All intellectually, psychologically, and morally mature adults here will understand to what I refer (and, of course, there's no inherant inconsistency between, say, cats and sunshine (however, on occasion, cats and a good night's sleep can be problematic.)).
I'm aoproaching this as I would have when I was a Mormon missionary. The core of this thought experiment is that the LDS church is presented as one of many choices but validated through moroni's challenge. What I will use in response is the typical replies given to individuals who have gone through this and still think its bunk.
Loran:
Here's your problem, and another thought experiment Vagas: If they still think its bunk, then they didn't actually "go through it" Get it?
I'm aoproaching this as I would have when I was a Mormon missionary. The core of this thought experiment is that the LDS church is presented as one of many choices but validated through moroni's challenge. What I will use in response is the typical replies given to individuals who have gone through this and still think its bunk.
Loran:
Here's your problem, and another thought experiment Vagas: If they still think its bunk, then they didn't actually "go through it" Get it?
Loran
What was that about can't again? Seriously, have you never met anyone who followed Moroni's promise and didn't get the "right" answer?
Of course. And what's wrong with being a Fringe Mormon? Or a Cafeteria Mormon? There are lots of us around. We're what holds the church together.
Vegas, no one, absolutely no one from the FP/GA's down, believes all of Mormonism. Why? Heck, even the prophet is clueless about some of this stuff. We are all ala carte Mormons. Heck, most of us don't even know all the doctrine, let alone how to obey all the commandments.
Trying to pin down Mormon doctrine is like nailing Jello to the wall: impossible. It changes all the time.
We all choose what we believe and leave the rest. I'm not bound by your concept of what I'm supposed to believe, or Moksha's, or Pres Hinckley's. I will not be told what to believe by Pres Hinckley, or you, or anyone else. My relationship with God is mine, not yours, not Pres Hinckley's, and no one gets in the middle of that, not even the man designated as prophet.
It might help if you stop thinking like a Mormon. (you know: black/white, all/nothing, against us/for us, etc)
And Jersey Girl just told me you're an active Mormon (which is a textbook indication of what all faithful Mormons already know: that activity, in and of itself, is not necessarily serious spirituality). This is soooooo sixties Harmony, and very, very difficult to pin down, just like most liberal New Age doubletalk.
LDS doctine doesn't change, and has never changed; only the practices change and doctrines are emphasized or deemphasized as the conditions of we great unwashed masses here on earth so require.
Loran
Last edited by Dr. Sunstoned on Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.