Evolution explains everything...

[_truth dancer]

Hi Keene,

The best part about evolution -- what doesn't work, dies. If religion is evolving, then the new offspring of the evolution will be what remains, while the old dies out.

Religion has always gone through evolution -- Each generation gets closer and closer to an amazing truth. But the old must be able to die for evolution to work. Otherwise, it's just an anchor slowing it down.

Excellent point!

I think being in the middle of a VERY long process, it is difficult (impossible?) to see changes that will most likely take thousands of years, but my guess is that those who do not find a way to move forward, evolve, and adapt to our new situation will die off.

While the religions of the past five thousand years have been brutal resulting in the deaths of untold millions of humans, the risks are too hight today, the weapons too powerful, and world to intimate, to allow the beliefs of the past (and those currently remaining) to continue.

Personally, I think our only two options are to adapt or die. I'm hoping we will find a way to move forward.

Roger, I think if we could elect you Wise Person of the World, we would be able to overcome our current difficulties! :-)

Seriously, if our world could let go of the "I'm right you are wrong," "God speaks to me and not you," My way is the only way," stuff, we may be able to move into a place of peace and respect. Unless we can make these changes I think our world is in trouble.

Also, in terms of our innate understanding of ethics... I have really pondered this. I think all humans have both our genetic animal inheritance (primitive survival instincts) as well as a more evolved sense of compassion. We have BOTH tendencies. And, hopefully, as conscious human beings we can identify which is which... I think most of us know it is not good to harm others and yet religion is filled with rules specifically created to harm others. (Think slaughtering, polygamy, treatment of women, racism, etc).

Seems from early on, (since the time of language perhaps), humans throughout the world have understood or felt rather, a sense of compassion hence teachings, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I think this sense evolved and came forth from the infinite potential of possibilities bringing forth self awareness to our universe! Seems religion often thwarts it due to the "God speaks to me/I am right, you are wrong," idea.

Just how I see it! :-)

~dancer~

[_Roger Morrison]

Hey TD, thank YOU for your kind words! I thrive on flattery, LOL! You say:

Also, in terms of our innate understanding of ethics... I have really pondered this. I think all humans have both our genetic animal inheritance (primitive survival instincts) as well as a more evolved sense of compassion. We have BOTH tendencies. And, hopefully, as conscious human beings we can identify which is which... I think most of us know it is not good to harm others and yet religion is filled with rules specifically created to harm others. (Think slaughtering, polygamy, treatment of women, racism, etc). (Bold & UL added)

There is no doubt that the underlined is a historical fact. However, i think it must be seen as in-the-past, and indicative of humane evolution that bears upon human behaviour; both inside and outside of religion. It seems obvious to me that our sensitive-secular-world is more responsible for our forward movement than is our fear- based religious-world.

As you, "...have really pondered this" i too am diggging deep into my spiritual base in preparing a talk to be delivered in a day or two. Running through my mind is the absolute necessity of differentiating the past from the present as we contemplate the future...

For many "Christians" this is next to impossible. IMSCO their "faith" is not in the 'Son', the man of peace and compassion, but rather in the 'Grandfather', the god of war and vengence!

The "seperation of the church and the political state" seems desirable to accomodate the conflict of interest tolerated to satisfy both "God" & "Mammon" in compromise of higher good to ego needs...

That is until we evolve to understand our personal, and collective problems cannot be satisfactorily addressed/healed while we live in a world that fails to acknowledge the 'seperation of the physical state from the spiritual state' is what fuels our dysfunction.

To this point in time historical-religion, based in the Old Testament past, has sabotaged, with ignorance and fear, the intents and purposes for which Jesus advocated: peace and goodwill between ALL of humanity...

Such will never happen until traditional Christianism has the courage and integrity to reform itself. Which it will never do without people like you and the many others thinking and feeling outside the box. Weary not in well doing! Warm regards, Roger

[_keene]

Compassion is often times viewed as not evolutionarily sound -- It doesn't seem to lean towards the "Survival of the fittest" motif.

But here's the kicker -- survival of the fittest doesn't limit itself to individuals. As seen in swarming insects, the group can easily win over the individual. Compassion leads to better group activity and a creative environment, allow humans a safe place to grow and have more children, and also to utilize their brains with tool creation.

Same goes with love. Many people say Love cannot evolve, it must be from God, but no. Love makes perfect evolutionary sense. And honestly, believing that love is nothing more than a biochemical reaction doesn't make it any less beautiful to experience. Whether it's supernatural, or natural, it's still a whole hella lot of fun.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Keene,

survival of the fittest doesn't limit itself to individuals. As seen in swarming insects, the group can easily win over the individual. Compassion leads to better group activity and a creative environment, allow humans a safe place to grow and have more children, and also to utilize their brains with tool creation.

I completely agree with you!

The way I see it, pre human life went from a very selfish surivial instinct to one concerned with offspring to one concerned with community in terms of packs or families. Compassion seems to have continually expanded over the last few thousand years from a very small band of people to villages, to the city/state, to nations, and hopefully we are seeing this move to encompass our world without restrictions of race, nation, religion etc.

If this is not evolution what is? Ya know? I think, unless we find a way to unity our world and bring peace to humankind we will not survive. Survival of our species will be determined by our ability to find a way to create a planetary family. (IMHO)!

:-)

~dancer~

[_Calculus Crusader]

Hey Ya'll...

Here is my attempt to get some new discussion going! :-)

Is there anything that evolution does not explain about our world? I suppose we don't get the reason for the universe but I'm thinking more about human life and how we live in the world.

in my opinion, evolution explains pretty much everything from the difficulties in marriage, to the "temptations" we sometimes feel, to the reason we act unkindly towards others, to our obsessions, to the creation of societies, various cultural phenomenon, etc. etc. etc.

What do you think? Can you think of things evolution does NOT explain?

Thanks for any thoughts or insights or opinions,

~dancer~

Evolution does not explain abstract thought/consciousness and morality, among other things. Sociobiology/ethology, as applied to humans, is glorified haruspicy, as far as I am concerned.

[_A Light in the Darkness]

Evolution doesn't explain most things from astronomy to geology to computer science.

[_Nephi]

Evolution gives a good explanation of why we see the world setup the way we do, and does attempt to explain many of the raw desires mankind faces, however, to believe that evolution explains everything about these subjects is taking evolution out of context and applying it as one wishes. Also, I worry about anything that tends to try to explain everything (religion included). Tis better to find answers through multiple sources than one only (tends to put blinders on the individual).

[_ozemc]

Hi TD, not sure about "evolution" answering everything?? But, I'm laying my chips on "science". As I enjoy my time and space it seems they have both been improved FANTASTICALLY from most "space" in other "times" by applied science.
I really endorse the following quote of Dawkins':

Quote:
DAWKINS: My mind is not closed, as you have occasionally suggested, Francis. My mind is open to the most wonderful range of future possibilities, which I cannot even dream about, nor can you, nor can anybody else. What I am skeptical about is the idea that whatever wonderful revelation does come in the science of the future, it will turn out to be one of the particular historical religions that people happen to have dreamed up. When we started out and we were talking about the origins of the universe and the physical constants, I provided what I thought were cogent arguments against a supernatural intelligent designer. But it does seem to me to be a worthy idea. Refutable--but nevertheless grand and big enough to be worthy of respect. I don't see the Olympian gods or Jesus coming down and dying on the Cross as worthy of that grandeur. They strike me as parochial. If there is a God, it's going to be a whole lot bigger and a whole lot more incomprehensible than anything that any theologian of any religion has ever proposed.

He's speaking my mind...ya know wad I'm sayin'?? Warm regards, Roger :-)

Amen to that, Roger!

I've been saying and saying that whatever God is, if God actually does exist, and I believe so, He/She/It is far greater than anything that can be written about Him/Her/It in a book.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Nephi... :-)

Evolution gives a good explanation of why we see the world setup the way we do,

I'm not sure I understand you here...

Why do you think we see the world as we do?

and does attempt to explain many of the raw desires mankind faces, however, to believe that evolution explains everything about these subjects is taking evolution out of context and applying it as one wishes. Also, I worry about anything that tends to try to explain everything (religion included). Tis better to find answers through multiple sources than one only (tends to put blinders on the individual).

So, what do you think evolution does NOT explain in terms of humans relating to each other?

I'm not really sure if evolution explains all of human dynamics or if it even "attempts" to do so. I see it more like a process that makes sense when we look at the way life has unfolded on our earth.

When you say, find answers through multiple sources, not one, what do you mean? Are you suggesting evolution is a source? Or what other sources are you meaning?

I'm sorry I am not quite following you on this... I'm very open to learning here!

Since my OP last year, I have read Dawkin's, The Selfish Gene... it has certainly got me thinking! ;-)

~dancer~

[_Sethbag]

Evolution probably explains the spork, but I don't think evolution explains why hot dogs come in packages of 8 while buns come in packages of 6.

More seriously, I'd be cautious of using evolution as the new "god of the gaps"

I think the comparison with "god of the gaps" is misplaced. The "god of the gaps" is offered up as the explanation for things for which there simply isn't a good answer. Evolution, on the other hand, in fact can explain an awful lot of things, and is, unlike the god of the gaps-like arguments, an argument which itself has meaning and explanatory power, and not merely an excuse for why there isn't a good answer.