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[_wenglund]

Anyway, if one has personal vulnerabilities, insecurities, and low self-esteem that they wish to healthily strengthen; and if one has mental/emotional wounds that they wish to properly heal; a functional approach may be to do things that are inherently valued by oneself and others, and to do things that are loving to self and others, and which may encourage the same in others. Rather than dysfunctionally puffing oneself up or tearing others down, actually build others up, and in the process build oneself up as well; and extend love to others and thus increase one's chances of receiving love in return.

Wade---I'm curious. Is that honestly what you think you do here?

Are you really blind to the fact that you consistently attempt to pat people on the head metaphorically and patronize them?

Wade...you are the king of "dysfunctionally puffing oneself up". You attempt this at every turn!

It's impossible to carry on a congenial conversation with you because you never let your guard down. You always have to couch your argument as being "above it all", and, particularly being "above" any other person you're talking with. When have you attempted to build someone up on this board?

If that's really your "mission" in being here, then I suggest you seriously reevaluate your approach because you are failing miserably.

That was quite a predictable response, Liz. Instead of saying: "Gee, this makes a lot of sense (you don't even have to credit me or mention my name if it makes you choke), I think it may benefit me to inculcate it as best as possible, and I would commend it to everyone else here. Life would be so much better for us all if we adhered to this precept."

But, no, you have this compulsion to look past what I say, ignore the threads that I have started which address my own challenges, ignore the many posts in which I have acknowledge in myself the weaknesses and dysfunctions that I am addressing (oft in anticipation of your seemingly knee-jerk reaction in claiming I am most at fault), and falsely project an aire of superiority onto me (I don't even think in terms of superior/inferior, but rather in terms of what works for everyone and what is in everyone's best interest), and focus instead on my admitted imperfections (yes, I am admittedly imperfect and at times dysfunctional in the way I have interacted with people here, but I am striving towards the ideal that I espoused above), while completely missing the point (particularly as it applies to YOU, Liz).

This is not to say that you don't have positive qualities about you that may be admired and perhaps wise to emulate. In fact, I believe that with relatively few exceptions, the qualities you manifest here are very positive and admirable, and it may surprise you to learn that I have strived to emulate some of them--particularly your sense of empathy and understanding of those who have left the faith, and the loving kindness you extend towards them. In other words, on balance and on the whole, you are very much valued and loved by me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Yoda]

That was quite a predictable response, Liz. Instead of saying: "Gee, this makes a lot of sense (you don't even have to credit me or mention my name if it makes you choke), I think it may benefit me to inculcate it as best as possible, and I would commend it to everyone else here. Life would be so much better for us all if we adhered to this precept."

But, no, you have this compulsion to look past what I say, ignore the threads that I have started which address my own challenges, ignore the many posts in which I have acknowledge in myself the weaknesses and dysfunctions that I am addressing (oft in anticipation of your seemingly knee-jerk reaction in claiming I am most at fault), and falsely project an aire of superiority onto me (I don't even think in terms of superior/inferior, but rather in terms of what works for everyone and what is in everyone's best interest), and focus instead on my admitted imperfections (yes, I am admittedly imperfect and at times dysfunctional in the way I have interacted with people here, but I am striving towards the ideal that I espoused above), while completely missing the point (particularly as it applies to YOU, Liz).

This is not to say that you don't have positive qualities about you that may be admired and perhaps wise to emulate. In fact, I believe that with relatively few exceptions, the qualities you manifest here are very positive and admirable, and it may surprise you to learn that I have strived to emulate some of them--particularly your sense of empathy and understanding of those who have left the faith, and the loving kindness you extend towards them. In other words, on balance and on the whole, you are very much valued and loved by me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade,

If you are truly being sincere, then I have misjudged you, and I apologize. I know that there are going to be times when all of us disagree on issues, and sometimes, I think it is best to simply "agree to disagree", and see each other as worthwhile human beings....sons and daughters of God, for those of us who are religious. We all owe each other basic respect.

The main reason that some of the folks here are bitter at times is because at one point, they have suffered the injustice of not being respected. The cycle definitely needs to stop somewhere. Why not here? ;)

[_Mister Scratch]

I appreciate your insight here, Wade. Lemme offer up another possibility, though. Might it be possible that one would have to "tear down" something in order to truly build it back up? I mean, it doesn't make much sense to build your house on a rotting foundation. Better to completely bulldoze the foundation and start from scratch, don'tcha think? (And yes---pun totally intended.)

I like that analogy and the principle it conveys. But, I am not sure how well applies to your obsessively tearing down here the moderators and certain prominent participants at the MAD board.

I'm not altogether sure, either. I was simply offering it up as a possibility.

Granted, you may think that "house" has a rotten foundation and perhaps needs to be bulldozed before rebuilding. But the house is not yours, nor do you dwell there (in fact you are prevented from dwelling there), nor is your perceptions about the house valued in the least or deemed at all credible (particularly in light of your own house being viewed by them as in need of major renovation), and thus your attempts at "tearing down" has done nothing to change their house in ways you believe may be better. Yet, you continue obsessively attempting to tear down their house.

No... I think that Mormonism is "my house," too. Also, I think it is classic how much you seem to love analogies, Wade. I'm glad I gave you a bit of fat to chew on.

There is a reason why you have continued to do this, which isn't adequately explained by your analogy. Rather, you have hinted at it in everything you right about them,

Well, I sure hope I've helped to "right" them!

and even explicitly mentioned it in this forum: you feel wronged and hurt, not only because you were evicted from their house, but because you were then, and have since been, viewed with little regard by many of the residents there. So, out of self-protection and self-promotiopn, you are here attempting to avenge your wrong. Your wrapping your behavior here in somewhat constructive terms (i.e. as simply tearing out the supposed rotten foundation in order to rebuild in a way you may prefer) is but a pretense. Your primary motive is, and has been, revenge. You have been obsessively tearing them down so as to supposedly wound and hurt them like they supposedly wounded and hurt you, and your braggadocia has been intended to render as little regard towards them as they have had for you.

No... Rather, as I have said, I have a great deal of fun reporting on the goings-on at FAIR... Oh, wait--that's right. The FAIRmessageboard *has* been bulldozed! Looks I got what I wanted, eh, Wade?

Sadly, you are not alone. Kevin and Liz's board was, for a brief season, a haven for licking wounds and slinging vengeful arrows at MAD/FAIR. Now this board and ZLMB seems to have taken its place (and that perhaps because the few there who were in a position to hear the plaintiff cries and be the reachable target for the vengeful arrows, were ironically disregarded and evicted).

Unfortunately, though, vengence is too often dysfunctional--particularly the kind of revenge you and others here have chosen. By virtue of your obsession you have inadvertantly endowed their house (FAIR/MAD) with profound importance.

Sorry, Wade, but for you to have any credibility, you're going to have to acknowledge that the FAIRboard is dead. We won that particular batter.

So, rather than you diminishing the regard you and others have for them, you have unwittingly elevated that regard. And, rather than reasonably demonstrating that their foundation is rotten and in need of rebuilding, you have unwitten demonstrated that it is not (it doesn't make sense for you and others to complain about not being let into a house you believe has a rotten foundation.

I don't care whether they let me in or not. Moreover, it would be quite easy to create a sockpuppet.

Were that true you would be thankful for having been evicted and have no desire to return, and have little to say about it), and have even perhaps exposed your own perceived rotten foundations (see my comments about aversion and repulsion).

Wow, Wade. Hey, man, I'm convinced---it was a crummy analogy. Thanks for pointing that out.

Now, if you continue to try to find ways to positiviely spin your behavior here towards FAIR/MAD, then you will merely end up immersing yourself deeper in the morass of your dysfunction. The only way you will make a positive change is to cease self-justifying, acknowledge and take ownership of your dysfunction, and work towards finding functional ways to heal and improve your intra-personal and inter-personal relationships (see my suggestions above).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

What "positive change"? I don't know about you, but I see the downfall of the FAIR MB as a positive change indeed!