Confirmation Bias

[_Mercury]

I practice area's that are considered "occult". And have multiple supernatural experiences on a regular basis now. They are confirmed, documented, and repeated by myself and a friend of mine(my teacher of sorts). So i know that the supernatural on some level exists. Much of what I've seen though tends me to shy away from the VAST majority of what people think of as supernatural effectives. Such as prayer or nearly the entirety of christianic philosphy on controlling the supernatural. Much of those claims are much more firmly rooted in the relm of thought controll and self hypnosis. With even a very small amount of research into self hypnosis,(or group thought controll methods) one can see everything that the church does to use these methods to its own ends of empowerment. Its very effective i must say.

tsuzuki? is that you?

[_Mephitus]

No, my RL name is chris. im totaly a white gaijin.

[_Gazelam]

"Tripping" is not a spiritual experience, its your brain cells dying and causeing hallucinations. This is also known as Mysticism.

Both are counterfeits to the Holy Ghost. And both lie to you.

Gaz

[_JAK]

"Tripping" is not a spiritual experience, its your brain cells dying and causeing hallucinations. This is also known as Mysticism.

Both are counterfeits to the Holy Ghost. And both lie to you.

Gaz

Post appears to be an attempt at difference with no genuine distinction.

“Tripping” means what? “Holy Ghost” is no less “counterfeit.” It’s an invention of religion -- an "hallucination."

JAK

[_Jersey Girl]

Post appears to be an attempt at difference with no genuine distinction.

“Tripping” means what? “Holy Ghost” is no less “counterfeit.” It’s an invention of religion -- an "hallucination."

JAK

Hello JAK!

I'm not exactly sure where Gaz came up with the "tripping" reference unless he was thinking about drugs. In your post you say that the Holy Ghost is an invention of religion. And you know this how? Why would you rule out that the Holy Ghost is a spiritual manifestation of God?

Welcome to the board!

Jersey Girl

[_Gazelam]

Sono Hito knows exactly what I mean.

[_Mephitus]

Sono Hito knows exactly what I mean.

Actualy, you have it quite backwards. the "holy ghost" is much more along the lines of self hypnotic suggestion of an intended feeling or intent. Since its effects are completely internalized and you are told on a regular basis within Mormonism what you should feel, your mind has no idea how to react but by what you expect.

I wont go into what i do, but suffice to say, its far from internal. The effects are very apparent on those that i target this on. Im not as good as my teacher yet, but he has the ability to hospitalise a person from across a room.(you would have to see it to believe it)

"mental trips" of what you are refering to arent that difficult once you know the steps. I don't do it though. I know my mind would come up with some pretty f***** up stuff. So i avoid attempting things that have no verifyable effects.

[_dartagnan]

Oh my, I nearly forgot about this thread…

Since this is way off-topic (which is why I did not pursue it previously--not to be confused with "bailing out"), let me just point you to a couple of scriptures: Alma 32:26-43, Moroni 10:1-7

Wade, you are the one who said reason and prayer go hand in hand. I demonstrated that this is entirely false in the Mormon paradigm. Now you’re pretending it is way off topic and you throw me a couple of verses that don’t even begin to make your case. Moroni passages say truth will be known, not by reason, but by the Holy Ghost after these things are pondered in our hearts, not our minds. Ponder is closer to “consider” or “meditate,” than it is to “reason.” The two are not synonymous. And Alma’s sermon on faith being like a seed is hardly evidence of a prayer-reasoning connection.

If you look very closely you will see that there is a question mark at the end of the last sentence. This means that I am asking a question, and not making a suggestion. And, if you look at the beginning of my post you will see that it is addressed to you and Beastie and Lucretia. So, the word "your" in my question means I am asking the question to you et. al., and not to myself. So, clearly, I am not suggesting a thing.

Oh the irony. If you look closely at my statement, it also ended with a question mark, so this means I was also asking a question and not asserting that you suggested something. I asked you if you suggested it – and this should go to further show how annoying it can be to have decent conversation with you; someone who makes a stink over a simple attempt to request clarification. However, to suggest something can come in indirect forms just the same.

Among the acceptable definitions of the word are:

To bring before a person's mind indirectly or without plain expression
To bring or call to mind by logic or association; evoke
To make evident indirectly; intimate or imply
To call (something) up in the mind through association or natural connection of ideas

Therefore, there is nothing improper in me asking if you intended to suggest something with your round-about questions that respond to questions. Questions can and often do imply suggestion. For example, “Where did you hide the money, because I have looked everywhere?” “Did you look under the mattress?” The second statement clearly suggests a location, whether it is a question or not.

[_wenglund]

Wade, you are the one who said reason and prayer go hand in hand. I demonstrated that this is entirely false in the Mormon paradigm. Now you’re pretending it is way off topic and you throw me a couple of verses that don’t even begin to make your case. Moroni passages say truth will be known, not by reason, but by the Holy Ghost after these things are pondered in our hearts, not our minds. Ponder is closer to “consider” or “meditate,” than it is to “reason.” The two are not synonymous. And Alma’s sermon on faith being like a seed is hardly evidence of a prayer-reasoning connection.

You apparently haven't reasoned this through very carefully.

So, let me see if I may be of some help to you.

Let's simplify things for you by breaking the elements of Moroni 10 down into basic parts, starting with the most key element: prayer. Please describe for me how you think someone might pray to God about the verity of the Book of Mormon without: 1) the decision to pray involving any reasoning at all; 2) the chosen content of the prayer involving any reasoning at all; and 3) perceiving, interpreting, and assigning meaning and value to the answer to the prayer (including no answer at all) without involving any reasoning at all. Best of luck.

Once you have struggled in vein, and suddenly discover that it is virtually impossible to divest investigative prayers of reasoning, we can then look at whether it is possible to "ponder" or "consider" or "meditate" or "remember" in connection with the investigative prayer, absent any reasoning at all.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mercury]

"Tripping" is not a spiritual experience, its your brain cells dying and causeing hallucinations. This is also known as Mysticism.

Both are counterfeits to the Holy Ghost. And both lie to you.

Gaz

You are an ignorant uninformed pink.