Suggestions Please

[_Jersey Girl]

Total apologies to wade for my part in derailing this thread.

Wade...what about "Mormon Directions"? Do you like that?

(peace offering)

Jersey Girl




Mormon DIRECTIONS

[_Bryan Inks]

When you reflect back through the images of time, where do you see the images of family and values begin to dissintegrate?

Approximately . . . . 900,000 years ago, when religious beliefs were first introduced to humankind.

[_Jersey Girl]

Just quickly....

Mormon Directions

Latter-day Guiding Principles

Latter-day Light and Guiding Principles

Latter-day Guiding Principles for Inner Peace

Mormon Directions and Guiding Principles

Mormon Journey

Do you like any of those?

Jersey Girl

[_Mercury]

Pulp: cheap throwaway novels made for the lowest and basest members of society. It represents only the most degenerate of the time period.

But here we might have an example also, lets compare that trash to the equivelant today. I think the example would still stand, don't you?

Obviously you have never seen Pulp Fiction, or your poor choice of Diction would not have slipped up the even more pathetic attempt at yet another cheap exhortation from Gaz the chapel Mormon lost on the internet.

[_moksha]

Wow, now that I think about it, you'd have to go back 40.

You would need to go back 50 years for Father Knows Best, and even then, that was only a television show. I wonder what has given Gaz such a harsh outlook on the human condition? It is almost as if he would like to run those with problems through some sort of boot camp where they would straighten up and pray right. Slap those whiny Elders and Sisters up side the head till they yell their hosannas. Give them enough spine to swallow the Gospel along with a handful of nails. That would toughen them up enough to start judging everything in a righteous manner.

At least I think that is sort of what Gaz is getting at.

[_truth dancer]

Gaz...

I wonder if you could take a bit of time and look at yourself and contemplate what it really is about therapy that bothers you.

Often it is insecurity, past mistakes, or deep fear.

I just find it odd when people can't see that others are in pain and may need help, or that there is more to managing life's challenges than just sucking it up and praying.

I especially find it odd when one claims to be a believer in Jesus Christ.

Do you wonder why the church is providing therapy for people? Do you ever wonder why some leaders have been to therapy? (I know plenty). Do you ever question the Brethren's decisions to encourage therapy for survivors of abuse? Can you not see that a parent who just lost a child may find comfort in being with others who have had a similar loss? Is it beyond your imagination to see that a couple on the verge of divorce may benefit from a therapist who is trained in marriage counseling?

I'm just curious why you have such distain for those professionals who wish to help, and for those who are hurting who are doing their best to find help.

~dancer~

[_wenglund]

But, I am not an LDS apologist (devout or otherwise), and I haven't been one for over a year and a half--which, as I understand things, is longer than you have not been an LDS apologist.

Not sure what being an apologist has to do with anything. I suspect practically everyone over at RFM knows who you are and especially your reputation as a die-hard defender of things DCP or FAIR related. That certainly cannot work in your favor if you're hoping to persuade some of them to come on over.

Yes, my reputation might be an impediment, but then again it might actually work in both parties favor. I thought a bit more about this and your previous objection last night, and it occurred to me that while there may certainly be a trust issue, there may be an advantage to the hurting ex-Mormon to present their issue to a devout LDS like me rather than, or in addition to, a former member or even an unbelieving member. It is one thing to share your hurt with others who are likewise hurting or who have been similarly hurt, but it is yet another thing, and perhaps potentially far better thing, to share your hurt with someone willing to listen who represents the perceived cause of the hurt.

For example, if a former member is hurting because of alienation from their devout loved-ones, there may be some benefit to sharing that hurt with others who are or have likewise been hurt for the same reason. However, I would think it more beneficial for them to sit down with someone who represents the devout loved one's, and not only have the representative hear the other side of the story, but who is also willing to find a workable solution to end the alienation or at least improve the relationship with the devout loved ones.

In short, if the hurting former member can work things out with me (given my reputation), they may have a better chance of working things out with their devout relations. Right?

Again, we'll see.

Incidentally, I think if LDS members really want to do anything to make an ex-Mormon's healing process go smoother, we would encourage other LDS to treat them less like a sinful, spiritless "apostates" and more like the human beings that they are. Many ex-Mormons cannot divorce themselves from all things Mormon because of social involvement (i.e. family), so it is up to us to make their continued experience as less painful as possible.

I agree. To me, what it all comes down to is mutual respect, and my interventions are designed to encourage that.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

But, I am not an LDS apologist (devout or otherwise), and I haven't been one for over a year and a half--which, as I understand things, is longer than you have not been an LDS apologist.

Not sure what being an apologist has to do with anything. I suspect practically everyone over at RFM knows who you are and especially your reputation as a die-hard defender of things DCP or FAIR related. That certainly cannot work in your favor if you're hoping to persuade some of them to come on over.

Yes, my reputation might be an impediment, but then again it might actually work in both parties favor. I thought a bit more about this and your previous objection last night, and it occurred to me that while there may certainly be a trust issue, there may be an advantage to the hurting ex-Mormon to present their issue to a devout LDS like me rather than, or in addition to, a former member or even an unbelieving member. It is one thing to share your hurt with others who are likewise hurting or who have been similarly hurt, but it is yet another thing, and perhaps potentially far better thing, to share your hurt with someone willing to listen who represents the perceived cause of the hurt.

I think you may be right, Wade, but I'm not sure you're the right person. The key is that you need to be willing to listen instead of minimizing or dismissing the hurt. I think that's probably why I reacted to you the way I did, as one of the first things that you told me was that I had not experienced a loss at all, which to my mind was not helpful at all except to dismiss my experience. I would imagine it's very hard for someone with your beliefs to stand back and just listen without trying to defend the church.

For example, if a former member is hurting because of alienation from their devout loved-ones, there may be some benefit to sharing that hurt with others who are or have likewise been hurt for the same reason. However, I would think it more beneficial for them to sit down with someone who represents the devout loved one's, and not only have the representative hear the other side of the story, but who is also willing to find a workable solution to end the alienation or at least improve the relationship with the devout loved ones.

In short, if the hurting former member can work things out with me (given my reputation), they may have a better chance of working things out with their devout relations. Right?

Again, we'll see.

As long as the "workable solution" recognizes the causes on both sides of the issue, this could work.

Incidentally, I think if LDS members really want to do anything to make an ex-Mormon's healing process go smoother, we would encourage other LDS to treat them less like a sinful, spiritless "apostates" and more like the human beings that they are. Many ex-Mormons cannot divorce themselves from all things Mormon because of social involvement (i.e. family), so it is up to us to make their continued experience as less painful as possible.

I agree. To me, what it all comes down to is mutual respect, and my interventions are designed to encourage that.[/quote]

I would really like to think that. As you said, we'll see.

[_Who Knows]

Let's flip the tables:

Would a devout TBM trust an exmo? Would he trust him enough to share all of his issues with? Would the devout TBM trust that the exmo had only the TBM's best interests in mind?

I doubt it. That's not to say that the exmo wouldn't have his best interests in mind, but I doubt the TBM would trust trust in that.

Who knows though, stranger things have happened...

[_wenglund]

Just quickly....

Mormon Directions

Latter-day Guiding Principles

Latter-day Light and Guiding Principles

Latter-day Guiding Principles for Inner Peace

Mormon Directions and Guiding Principles

Mormon Journey

Do you like any of those?

I think they are all excellent suggestions. They each capture at least some of the key essence of what my board will be about.

I wonder, though, if those titles might be interpreted as the board being exclusively for LDS, rather than also for former members? Who knows?

Anyway, as I was pondering your suggetions last night, I was struck by this title: "I'm Listening" (I got this phrase from the Frazer TV show. It is the lead-in that Dr. Crane uses when speaking with each caller.) While it doesn't capture the essence of what the board is about (certainly not like your great suggestions), it is generic and I think somewhat appealing. It also highlights an important factor that I see as too often under-utilized on all sides in online discussion. People seem to me to be more intent on "saying" rather than "hearing".

Besides, I checked the domain registry, and iamlistening.org is still available.

What do you think?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-